that old dog 'abortion'

[billy]

in the philippines we're going through the process of passing the reproductive health bill, which prompted me to ask the question that's been asked on every forum on the net including this one i think. that said views on subjects like this can change with the times. so the question is;
should abortions be legal, semi legal (only under certain circumstances) or illegal? it's a wide ranging topic so leeway will be allowed but try and stay on topic as much as possible.

[heslopian]

The way the system works now, abortion is legal, provided you have wealth. All the law does in countries where it's still supposedly prohibited is make the process dangerous for poor people, who can't afford to jet off to some private clinic in a faraway land, but have to make do with a backstreet butcher with a dirty douche and a cheese grater.

[thethingy]

should be illegal save in cases of rape or danger to the mother, after all contraception costs next to nothing so no need to kill something just cause you cant be aresed to be prepared......................................

[addy]

I think abortion should be legal under very strict circumstances, and barring unforeseen circumstances, done at the very earliest stages of pregnancy. If it's a matter of unwilling or incapable parent/s, then putting the child up for adoption can be a reasonable alternative.

[cigarbabe]

This is the problem with an abortion legality in most countries as I see it.
You, those who vote are asked to presume what may be right for people who need abortions but
A. Don't read,write,aren't educated about birth control,may not have the money and perhaps have never known there is another way besides going to a midwife in a village somewhere or circumstances similar. I'm sure you educated folk know what I'm getting at.
B. There are those who for religious convictions or otherwise believe that once you're pregnant you should have the baby and put it up for adoption if you don't want it can't afford it.
I'm not going to add the other reason and categories I've thought of unless you come on skype with me or yahoo so I don't have to type!
Thingy,I'm assuming you were trying to spell "arsed"? Which I think means bothered. Did you ever think not everyone has access or money for rubbers and foam in many countries including the U.S.?

I had a second trimester abortion because my gynecologist diagnosed me incorrectly.
Half his fault or maybe all I'm being generous.
I have an unusually small uterus so he thought I was 3 weeks not the six that I was.
I hadn't known never being pregnant in a normal fashion,I had an ectopic shortly into a pregnancy and the rupture from that
caused to me to go to a hospital where I found out I was pregnant for the first time.
I wasn't ready for children and I used the pill then.
The government and the church shouldn't be in the business of regulating peoples personal choices imo besides how can you counsel someone when you don't have the same issues and you aren't in a relationship with anyone but God?
Think about this, what if your child got pregnant at 12 would you force that child to have a baby?
I didn't want get off topic so forgive me.
I just wanted you to know where and how I formed my opinions.
C.B.

[billy]

good points CB.

i don't think abortion clinics should be used as a means to get rid of an unwanted child.
i do think aboi\rtions should be there as an option for underage kids etc, and of course for medical reasons. also to some extent the choice of the woman. but lets not mince words here in a few (and i say a few cases) some women go through four or five aborts simply because they didn't take the precaution. while i agree with vf that the woman should have the right to choose. it isn't fair that because of drunkenness or forgetfulness one woman uses up so namy of a national healths assets thereby making someone else go on a waiting list etc. if they pay for the abortion themselves then i have no objections.

Cb mentioned a great point that many impoverished women and men, can't afford the pill or the condom, for me thats where the problem is. every single man or woman on this planet should have access to condoms and the pill or other forms of contraception.
the church should not be able to influence such decisions. sometimes when a country is staunchly catholic then the gov has to step up and say enough is enough. jmo

[addy]

Well argued, guys. Yeah, I understand that it's a personal choice. I'm pro-abortion myself. But I'll probably never agree to zero restrictions in abortions, (for instance restrictions in the latest stages of a pregnancy where there are no health issues) simply because the state also has a duty to protect human life (I'm sure all of us can at least agree that life doesn't start upon exit from vagina).

The church's position drives me nuts. They're anti-abortion, but they won't let anyone have contraceptives either. WTF

[thethingy]

The choice of abortion is a pregnant woman's business, not someone else's.
If abortions are not legal in a society, a black market in abortions will develop.

that's so true but its debatable at what point in time the foetus becomes conscious but its not debatable that the foetus is at all points in development alive so given its within the knowledge of most people that having sex can get people pregnant then I think abortion just for convenience is unacceptable, would you kill off the old granny just cause she has served her purpose?, obviously teens and rape victims and occasions when pregnancy can harm the mother or even if the baby is somehow deformed are slightly different but on the whole to kill is not quite right...............

[cigarbabe]

Again thingy I ask you, if your 12 yr old or younger daughter was pregnant, would you force that child to go through
with carrying a baby to term? Personally I could and would not.
It's absurd to think a child at any age is ready to undertake the responsibilities of motherhood not to mention how will she and her boyfriend support this baby.
We live in a world now where "babies" having children is fairly commonplace.
It is encumbent upon the parents if suspecting your child is engaging in play with boys, to put her on birth control
and that cannot be an easy decision for any parent to make but the alternatives are so life altering
that few can recoup what has been lost or come back from that brink.
I don't care at what point an individual considers a fetus "alive" that had no bearing on the decision I had to make once.
I could not and did not want to raise a child alone nor did I want to have a child, who may have been damaged my intake of booze and chemicals.
For me it was the only choice and the right one.
I do agree that abortion should not be used for birth control though.
When I was at the hospital waiting my turn there a girl there with her mother and the doctors told her
"your daughter should be put on birth control, this is her fourth abortion and it is is unacceptable to use this service as
a way to keep her from getting pregnant again"
I asked her how old she was.
She was only 14.
C.B.

[thethingy]

Again thingy I ask you, if your 12 yr old or younger daughter was pregnant, would you force that child to go through
with carrying a baby to term? Personally I could and would not.
It's absurd to think a child at any age is ready to undertake the responsibilities of motherhood not to mention how will she and her boyfriend support this baby.
We live in a world now where "babies" having children is fairly commonplace.
It is encumbent upon the parents if suspecting your child is engaging in play with boys, to put her on birth control
and that cannot be an easy decision for any parent to make but the alternatives are so life altering
that few can recoup what has been lost or come back from that brink.
I don't care at what point an individual considers a fetus "alive" that had no bearing on the decision I had to make once.
I could not and did not want to raise a child alone nor did I want to have a child, who may have been damaged my intake of booze and chemicals.
For me it was the only choice and the right one.
I do agree that abortion should not be used for birth control though.
When I was at the hospital waiting my turn there a girl there with her mother and the doctors told her
"your daughter should be put on birth control, this is her fourth abortion and it is is unacceptable to use this service as
a way to keep her from getting pregnant again"
I asked her how old she was.
She was only 14.
C.B.

to be honest I wouldn't force the carrying or the termination under them circumstances but I think it would be the parents right to force ether way as the child is a child and cant/perhaps make them decisions,in your case you made your choice but were you aware that having sex makes babies?

[billy]

personally apart from health reasons, i couldn't see how a parent forcing their child to have an abortion could be a good thing.
i think i'd tell my daughter the ins and outs the best i could and try and talk her into not having an abortion (unless the doctors advised against it) then do the best we could to help her bring her child up. of course if she were adamant i'd think long and hard before making a decision.
in the end i think i'd choose what she wanted (though i can't be sure)

[srijantje]

when is a foetus just a little piece of meat and when does it become[sort of]conscious?That's a very important question i reckon.
Abortion or not is very much depending on individual circumstances,how old is the girl,how did she get pregnant,etc.

[billy]

in some countries it is on demand.
and i doubt it's men that decide. in the philippines the church has a lot of influence on abortion not being allowed...(that's about to change though) so yes here men decide. in the uk it's a natter of policy that women under (i think it's 14 weeks) may have an abortion if they so wish)
i think it's the same in the usa, though the length of time may differ and they don't get it for free. in many western countries it's the same.

it's probably different in third world countries because of the demands on medical facilities etc. there i doubt they'd be free abortions, also because of religious followings i doubt anyone but the rich could get an abortion.

[srijantje]

In India it's very easy to get abortions,this has more to do with population control than anything.
The problem is that people want boys,so they get scans,if the fetus is female,abort,in many states the male female ratio is totally out of whack

[cigarbabe]

Again thingy I ask you, if your 12 yr old or younger daughter was pregnant, would you force that child to go through
with carrying a baby to term? Personally I could and would not.
It's absurd to think a child at any age is ready to undertake the responsibilities of motherhood not to mention how will she and her boyfriend support this baby.
We live in a world now where "babies" having children is fairly commonplace.
It is encumbent upon the parents if suspecting your child is engaging in play with boys, to put her on birth control
and that cannot be an easy decision for any parent to make but the alternatives are so life altering
that few can recoup what has been lost or come back from that brink.
I don't care at what point an individual considers a fetus "alive" that had no bearing on the decision I had to make once.
I could not and did not want to raise a child alone nor did I want to have a child, who may have been damaged my intake of booze and chemicals.
For me it was the only choice and the right one.
I do agree that abortion should not be used for birth control though.
When I was at the hospital waiting my turn there a girl there with her mother and the doctors told her
"your daughter should be put on birth control, this is her fourth abortion and it is is unacceptable to use this service as
a way to keep her from getting pregnant again"
I asked her how old she was.
She was only 14.
C.B.

to be honest I wouldn't force the carrying or the termination under them circumstances but I think it would be the parents right to force ether way as the child is a child and cant/perhaps make them decisions,in your case you made your choice but were you aware that having sex makes babies?

If you read my post you would know that I was on the pill when I got pregnant.
Of course I was aware but never thought I would get "knocked up" while on the "pill"!
It is encumbent upon the parents to make a decision for the child and I have seen many, many children who believe that since they're pregnant
they are adult enough to raise a child, but those of you who are parents of kids know absolutely that simply isn't true.
Unless you're wanting to raise your kid's child or you feel guilty for not telling them about sex soon enough
whatever the reason that child should be made to get counseling and have an abortion.
No 12 or 15 year old is fit to raise a child.
Not in this day and age.
One hundred or more years ago they had to be ready for childbirth
they were probably married by fourteen or younger and that is quite a different story
because kids nowadays are allowed to be children for a much longer time then kids back in the 1700-1800's were.
What country Billy, is wholly run by women?
Not a single one that I'm aware of m'dear!
C.B.

[srijantje]

http://www.labspaces.net/109553/The_impa...outh_Korea

[srijantje]

or a bit of radiation to fry their balls

[cigarbabe]

Perhaps they'll all be gay which I think might be a good thing.
It could teach more people how to be tolerant but I highly doubt it.
C.B.

[srijantje]

http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_de...ls_1521550