Adam's Choice edit 1

[Brownlie]

1st edit Who knows if this thing is getting better but it was fun pardon the near rhymes. Dio says you've got to plead for the dancer, maybe her brush with the devil made her soul more beautiful...

The lord forbids the fruit that’s hanging here.
The adders whisper out for Eve to eat.
Will hanging knowledge here, make life more dear?

The look I see on Eve is red and sweet
The snake, with wind-like hissing rustles leaves.
The lord forbids the fruit that’s hanging here.

The garden’s blissful hue is shining fear
The fruit will teach of blood in veins that bleed.
Will hanging knowledge here, make life more dear?


The fruit is wet with nature’s sugar. Seeds
Organic case is ripe. Is hunger greed?
The lord forbids the fruit that’s hanging here.

Is Satan thinking he beguiled Eve
by blushing pallid flesh with vibrant cheeks?
Will hanging knowledge here, make life more dear?

Forbidden fruit so sweet with truth so near
that hangs as red as bloody life, a feast.
The lord forbids the fruit that’s hanging here.
Will hanging knowledge here, make life more dear?



Original
Shall I go eat this apple hanging here?
The adders whisper out for me to eat.
What knowledge hangs, will I become a seer?

Its vibrant reddish hue a tempting sweet.
The snake is wisdom hissing sweeps through leaves.
Shall I go eat this apple hanging here?

The children play in gardens. Father’s with fear
are overbearing weights with rules decreed.
What knowledge hangs, will I become a seer?

What sounds beyond the garden I can’t hear
are ripe in tempting apples. Shall I cheat?
Shall I go eat this apple hanging here?

Is Satan thinking he beguiled Eve
by adding blush to her now vibrant cheeks?
What knowledge hangs, will I become a seer?

Forbidden fruit so sweet with truth so near
that hangs as red as bloody life, a feast.
Shall I go eat this apple hanging here?
What knowledge hangs, will I become a seer?

[Brownlie]

Hi Brownlie..the villanelle is a challenging form. I like what you have done here, tackling a biblical theme.

Refrains need to be strong and memorable for a villanelle to work, and yours are, for the most part. But the word "go" in the first one gives the line a very colloquial vibe. It makes the syntax awkward. I understand it is a needed syllable for meter's sake, but perhaps a rewording is in order. The other refrain is perfect metrically, and supports the theme of seduction and deceit well.

Two other things concern me. Since you are covering the fall of man from the Genesis account, there are two liberties you have taken with the storyline. First, the fruit in question is never specified. It is always assumed to be an apple. Second, Adam was given the fruit by his wife Eve..he did not stumble onto it, nor was he directly approached by the serpent. These two things are not deal breakers for me, nor do they reflect the quality of your verse (which I think is very high).

I think S4 and S5 are the strongest. There are a few spots where the meter should be adjusted, however. Ex. from S5:

Is Satan thinking he beguiled Eve
by adding blush to her now vibrant cheeks?
What knowledge hangs, will I become a seer?

"Now" is an accented syllable, but the iambic meter calls for an unaccented syllable.

I hope this is helpful, and thank you for indulging me. Overall, I like this poem.

First Rate feedback, thank you. Very helpful.

[cidermaid]

Hi Brownlie,
This is an excellent effort and a good read.
I cannot better fogglethorpe's advise on the actual form so I will try and offer some other comments.

Shall I go eat this apple hanging here? I agree that "go" makes this line feel a little awkward. But it is a great opener for the subject. Re the Adam / Eve thing perhaps F has a point but this could be easily rectified by changing the title to Eve's choice. As to reguards the whole apple thing...well yes if you really want to be nitpicky but then if you had mentioned about a citrus fruit, which is perhaps a better translation of the type of fruit possibly indicated in the original texts, then very few people would get the referance. I think apple is fine. It carries a whole wealth and depth of understory and images that everyone can easily identify with. Basically any sentance with the word apple Adam or Eve in plugs people straight into the plot with no confusion. this then frees up the rest of the poem to explore the ramifications of the story line. (which i think you have covered pretty well).
The adders whisper out for me to eat. Do you want adders singular or plural here? (just move the S to suit...having niggled at F's comment for nitpicking I now want to nitpick and make it a singular adder - can't please everyone ). Also out sounds odd in this line. No suggestions right now thought
What knowledge hangs, will I become a seer? I love this line as a refrain.

Its vibrant reddish hue a tempting sweet.
The snake is wisdom hissing sweeps through leaves.
Shall I go eat this apple hanging here?

The children play in gardens. Father’s with fear Got a bit of a comprehension stumble over the the father's with fear bit. Did you mean the father have a fear or they project fear into the children? And is this meant to be The Father (above) or a father? dispite the abiguity of this I do like the thought paths it makes as a whole stanza
are overbearing weights with rules decreed.
What knowledge hangs, will I become a seer?

What sounds beyond the garden I can’t hear
are ripe in tempting apples. Shall I cheat?
Shall I go eat this apple hanging here? Nice. clever use of words to make double images work

Is Satan thinking he beguiled Eve
by adding blush to her now vibrant cheeks?
What knowledge hangs, will I become a seer? Same comment as above - nice

Forbidden fruit so sweet with truth so near
that hangs as red as bloody life, a feast.
Shall I go eat this apple hanging here?
What knowledge hangs, will I become a seer?

Overall i think you have done a great job on this.

[billy]

it's almost there, i'm enjoying reading your forms, though it seems to have a lot of rhyme problems, they're really nits that could be put right very quickly, but the rhymes and refrains are what make the villanelle work...as well as the meter which other can comment on as it seem okay to me apart from the 3rd line (2nd refrain) has an extra half foot

good effort

Shall I go eat this apple hanging here? a get around would be to change here to there as both are sort of half rhymes with seer
The adders whisper out for me to eat.
What knowledge hangs, will I become a seer? a suggest would be to change become to [be]

Its vibrant reddish hue a tempting sweet. shouldn't sweet rhyme with here
The snake is wisdom hissing sweeps through leaves. again there's a rhyme problem. that said i like the line itself. though knowledge which the tree was of is different than wisdom
Shall I go eat this apple hanging here?

The children play in gardens. Father’s with fear
are overbearing weights with rules decreed. shouldn't decreed rhyme with eat?
What knowledge hangs, will I become a seer? i like the use of hangs, it's very Damoclesian in that it's hung by a metaphorical thread or hair as was the sword above the head of Damocles.

What sounds beyond the garden I can’t hear
are ripe in tempting apples. Shall I cheat?
Shall I go eat this apple hanging here?

Is Satan thinking he beguiled Eve
by adding blush to her now vibrant cheeks?
What knowledge hangs, will I become a seer?

Forbidden fruit so sweet with truth so near
that hangs as red as bloody life, a feast.
Shall I go eat this apple hanging here?
What knowledge hangs, will I become a seer?

[Brownlie]

Thank you Billy and Cider I made some edits before I saw your comments but they are all appreciated and I will consider them later. The near-rhymes are definitely a fault. Is the metrical transgression worth it? I couldn't tell you for sure.

[billy]

apparently you can have half a foot missing if you end on a feminine syllable (though don't take my word for it)
however, you have a half foot too much which i'm pretty sure is a half foot to many. that you call it a transgression implies you didn't mean to do it, if that's the case then change it, if you did mean to to do it, then question is begged; "why"

[milo]

apparently you can have half a foot missing if you end on a feminine syllable (though don't take my word for it)
however, you have a half foot too much which i'm pretty sure is a half foot to many. that you call it a transgression implies you didn't mean to do it, if that's the case then change it, if you did mean to to do it, then question is begged; "why"

halffoot extra always occurs with a feminine ending in iambic, there is no other way to do it so it is not really a deviation at all.

half foot short occurs with headless iamb. This should be used sparingly as your predominant meter easily slides right over trochaic.

[billy]

thanks for jumping in milo


is here in this instant fem or stressed? just asking so as to give insight into the meter of certain parts of the poem.

[milo]

thanks for jumping in milo


is here in this instant fem or stressed? just asking so as to give insight into the meter of certain parts of the poem.

the main metrical problem is on "The children . . ." which contains an anapest.

The bigger problem with the "seer" refrain that no one is mentioning is that if it is "SEer" which is the correct pronunciation, than the other refrain HAS to have a feminine ending, one of the reasons almost all villanelles only use fem endings on the "b" lines. The only solution is to talk about grilling meat as far as I can see.

added: The edited version contains no metrical problems at all, but the padding is so obvious that it is awkward, in at least one instance actually breaking grammar rule. I want to give a full crit, but not on my phone.

[billy]

yes, i saw it as seer.
i'll give some feedback on the edit in a while. as i have to create a pdf and it's taking a fair while

[Brownlie]

thanks for jumping in milo


is here in this instant fem or stressed? just asking so as to give insight into the meter of certain parts of the poem.

the main metrical problem is on "The children . . ." which contains an anapest.

The bigger problem with the "seer" refrain that no one is mentioning is that if it is "SEer" which is the correct pronunciation, than the other refrain HAS to have a feminine ending, one of the reasons almost all villanelles only use fem endings on the "b" lines. The only solution is to talk about grilling meat as far as I can see.

added: The edited version contains no metrical problems at all, but the padding is so obvious that it is awkward, in at least one instance actually breaking grammar rule. I want to give a full crit, but not on my phone.

Whenever you have the time.