chomsky

[srijantje]

true,or is he going too far here?

http://www.progressive.org/wx041210.html

[Benny2guns]

I find it very true myself.

[srijantje]

i can't really have a good opinion from here,you have to live there i guess but i respect the man a lot so i think there must be something in it.

[billy]

personally i can't see it but i don't live there.

i do think anyone who doesn't support obama will relish the words of the chomsky. somehow i can't see the democrats wiping out x million republicaqn whatevers.

i'm also confused. he said the nazis had 2% of the vote and two years later it shot up.

since when has the democrats ever had anywhere near 2%...using facts is all well and good but they mean jack shit if they're not relevant.

[srijantje]

thanks for the link,i'm getting it now and sending it to a few people

[srijantje]

have some more coffee,up till now you're making a lot of sense

[billy]

To me it represents more the fact that there is no alternative within American "democracy" - corporations own the governments, the Federal reserve dictates the economy.. there is no scope for any change.

The Military Industrial Complex has taken over.
Compare the facts with those of Nazi rule in Germany.
Military spending was seen as the only way to beat financial recessions / depressions. By building more and more bullets, bombs and armaments the German (American) population was given hope.

i can agree with that. it's pretty much the same in the uk though it's a 3 party horse race. but hasn't it always been like that? when was it different?

as for the military industrialist. again i agree but again, hasn't it always been that way?

By building false enemies (in place of communists read Islamic terrorists) the nation is kept in a perpetual state of war.
By drilling the fear of "socialism" into the population those in power can move closer to a "free" dictatorship.

same again. haven't we always been like that. the uk itself was a socialist state for a long time but that changed a good while ago. in many ways a democracy is a dictatorship. we vote someone in to rule us. as an outsider i can't see any perceptible changes in the direction of socialism becoming the norm or a real dictatorship as such. i think the politico have always tried to scare us to vote a certain way.

I know he is not suggesting that the Democrats will wipe out the Republicans or vice-versa. Chomsky considers the two combined to be the real threat as they are the same party in different disguises.
Looked at from this perspective I think it will make more sense.

Obviously that 2% comment has little relevance to the US as such.

which was my point some of his comments had little or no relevance, they were just use as a scare tactic, something he accuses others of doing.

Remember he is 82 years old now.. he makes slip-ups and it helps to listen to more of his speeches to fully understand Chomsky's tangential thought processes..

if you're going to preach to the multitudes best get it right, i'm positive he has a a house full of researchers and copy writers as well as proof readers availavle, i can almost them saying "yep that nazi remark is a doozy"
my wife works in the media as does her girls. it doesn't matter what shit you spout just as long as you get their attention. and if they let mistakes like that get through by accident he needs to give up his job.

As for the National Socialists having 2% of the vote, that is true. The rise of the Nazi party was phenomenal, through the use of propaganda and word of mouth scare mongering between the years 1935 - 1939.

The greatest trick the Nazi's pulled was to remove all other parties from the elections, banning any opposition parties by law.

if an american socialist party rises to power over the next four years i'll not only eat my hat but everyone elses.

Not so blatant but still relevant, there is no opposition in American politics. All parties may say they stand for opposing policies yet the truth is obviously not the case.
Both parties are supported, financed and work for the large corporate elites. All parties work for the military machine at the expense of the citizens.

i don't agree. i know the politico set up is favoured to let either of the two parties win but the people do have the power to vote any party they wish into power. the people are and have always been the true opposition party.

I'm waffling a little.. my brain still hasn't connected yet today.
Apologies, but I'll get back on track after more caffeine.

no probs with the waffle, you made a lot of sense. for the best part i'm playing devils advocate though on this subject i do believe what i say. (to a large extent) i don't think anything to do with anything as intricate as social politics can be a clear cut case either way

[billy]

Obviously that 2% comment has little relevance to the US as such.

which was my point some of his comments had little or no relevance, they were just use as a scare tactic, something he accuses others of doing.

After re-watching the full interview, the reference to 2% had very little relevance to the speech. It was a comment made at the very end of the hour long lecture, possibly intended as a warning of how quickly things can change, and if anything was shown out of context in the OP's original link (this one >> http://www.progressive.org/wx041210.html ).

---

I have been busy for the last 2 days cataloging my entire text archives of Chomsky's books, lectures, interviews, debates and articles.. I have at least another 2 days work ahead of me to complete just the text files. That's before I get to work on the audio and video files.

It was a welcome break to listen to a full speech for a while.

My eyes hurt.

for me i think it was really misleading.
it's just the same when they use a certain kind of music to enforce whatever they're saying.

often they'd sound like shit if it wasn't for the angry or soothing sounds that are used to set the mood.

sorry but i think words should stand on their own with the bolstering of some inane quote that holds little relevance.

lets also slip into the speech that 7 million jews were killed.

these slip-ins they put in speeches and often at the end of speeches are used for a reason.

a lot of people will walk away from it thinking nazi and be disgusted (the mood with they're trying to instill into us about those they don'y agree. the word and meaning having been planted as the last image of those being decried. it doesn't matter if it way off left field it's used on purpose. when it is i tend to take everything else with a pinch of slat. if a speech needs that kind of re-enforcement i look on it as weak to start with.

limburgh does it a lot, (he prefers racist though i think he jas used the nazi reference and more) fox news loves to do it. even cnn use the tactic.

in the old days it was called propaganda. in this day and age its use belittles us all.

[billy]

i think it's why i like biden.

for all his gaffes he comes across as speaking from the heart.
whether you like his politics or not he often seems sincere.
i can't comment on chomsky as such because i don't watch of follow him.
but for me they have to seem at least to be honest for me to even listen to them. as soon as i see limburghs tears etc i'd turn off and laugh my ass away. whether obama succeeds or fails he also has that certain air of honesty in his speech pattern. (i'm not saying that makes him honest) which led a lot of people to follow him. i can't see someone like limburgh having the same effect. chomsky might but as i say i don't know of him.

[srijantje]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may...-west-bank

[billy]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may...-west-bank

i find it remarkable that he needs the israelis permission.

why can't the Palestinians have a crossing into saudi ? or whichever county borders the left hand side of it ?

[srijantje]

jordan and egypt,the israelis have a stranglehold on the palestinians,that's why they reckon they live under occupation

[billy]

jordan and egypt,the israelis have a stranglehold on the palestinians,that's why they reckon they live under occupation

thats it, egypt.

why on earth doesn't egypt open a border with them. did they make a pact with the israelis. why can't people enter via the sea.

[srijantje]

i'm sure they have a pact with egypt,if you try to enter by sea you get blown out of the water by israeli gunboats,you have to get permission from the occupier to enter the ghetto

[billy]

i suppose we're getting off topic but it's sad that a people can't move freely in and out of it's own country.