01-04-2026, 12:11 AM
(01-03-2026, 11:56 PM)Nachtfrost Wrote:(01-01-2026, 11:21 AM)milo Wrote: So, here's the thing, the reason I asked for the original is because poetry (especially formal poetry) has strong concerns with idiomatic language, meter, rhymes, padding ,etc.I would very much appreciate if you could elaborate precisely on the issues with idiomatic language, padding, on any weaknesses of metaphorical and symbolic imagery, also of course on whether you think the poem as a whole is "narratively sound", i.e. clearly enough conveys the idea and the emotion.
Generally, when I see foreign language idioms translated to English it sounds fresh and interesting to my ear.
That is mostly not the case here.
So, let me lay out the reasons I am struggling with this:
- I think this could be a strong poem
- I believe very strongly that the wrong from was chosen and that this should be in free verse.
- Much of the idiomatic speech comes across as stilted due to the adherence to a form structure that I think you are not familiar with in your native language.
So, I need your guidance on where to go from here.
I could do a "mechanical analysis" of the rhyme and meter or, we could consider what this would look like as free verse.
Let me know what you are looking for here and I will taylor my response to fit your needs
Thanks
I'm especially intrigued by your point about the stiltedness of the idiomatic speech, as for the life of me I genuinely can't spot any use of idioms; I might be deeply confused, but to me my language here seems to be mostly either metaphorical or literal, with a couple of minor lyrical references, like for instance this one (just as a side note, to clarify in case you wonder):
Quote:The critique of metre and especially rhymes is also very much welcome. I'm an amateur of course, and when forming a rhythmic structure I honestly simply go by a feeling.
Admittedly, I never really appreciated particularities of formal poetry like iambs and amphibrachs. They always felt too rigid, almost "academic" to me, if that makes sense, — 20 years ago due to immaturity and ignorance, nowadays I think rather because I've grown to love authors like Brodsky, heh. I admire his "The End of a Beautiful Era", Yesenin's "The Black Man", Mayakovsky's "Lilichka" — not least for how alive such unconventional metrical feet are. In contrast, free verse simply doesn't do it for me: neither emotionally, nor expressively.
This is all good and you seem committed to the metric/rhymed form so I have my direction to approaching this with you
Quote:I find your thought about translating foreign idioms to English really interesting. On one hand, in undeniably preserves the original artistic expression. But on the other hand, I think that it greatly compromises the main purpose of any translation: to convey the substance. As, I presume, a native English speaker, do you not feel like it makes the translation confusing and convoluted? Personally, I think that examples where an idiom is so semantically intertwined with the text that translating it literally is the only way to preserve the narrative integrity are extremely rare. In literature, especially in poetry, it's quintessential to preserve the linguistic "flow", the ease with which a native speaker grasps the meaning of the words being strung together. Just as a random example, imagine that in the middle of a dynamic and tense poem you suddenly stumble upon the line "Our ears are on the top of our heads!" That would completely ruin the pace that was supposed to be in its actual meaning — "Our troops are curt on high alert!"
Sorry is this is too much offtopic babbling.
Thank you for your response.
This part here is a passion of mine. Let me give you an example:
In English - to call something what it is we might say to call a spade a spade. This is boring. To me. It is my native language. i would never use that in a poem. I read once that the Spanish version was "al pan pan y al vino vino" which would be boring to a Spanish speaker and therefore never be used in a poem. The literal translation of that is
bread is bread and wine is wine
I love that! I DID use that in an English poem. It sounds refreshing to English ears (or at least to mine) I have a dozen or so other examples.
If you google the French expression
"Entre chien et loup"
On this very site you will get some discussion of it. The English concept I find fascinating.
Thanks


