02-08-2022, 07:48 AM
@Torkel - excellent distinction made b/w belief and knowledge. We may be agnostic theists, which is a good way of putting it.
In support of Mark's point, however, even Abdus Salam, who along with Weinberg and Glashow unified the electroweak force with the electromagnetic force in the 70s and won a Nobel in physics for doing it, was a devout Muslim (a majority of Pakistanis claim that he was Ahmadi, ergo not a true Muslim - but that's bollocks). Now did Salam believe that Mohammed went to heaven on a winged horse? Probably not. I'd wager that he interpreted the Night Journey in the Quran as a dream.
We all have our personal take on what parts of religious doctrine make sense and what parts don't. The belief that Jesus was the literal son of God may not be held by all 'Christians' - there's very little evidence it was held to be true by James himself, and so you can be non-Trinitarian (or even Jewish, believing that Yehoshua was a great religious teacher but not the Messiah, because the Messiah is a cock and bull fable dreamed up by ignorant goat herders) and still adhere to some 'Christian' beliefs.
Why do many smart people still think that there's a grand plan behind it all? Because the universe is infinite in its complexity, and we are but gibbering idiots, even the smartest of us. It is the argument from Job.
I like to think that there's a grand pattern, even if it doesn't include me or make my conscious existence anything other than an accidental and temporary byproduct of a cunning plan.
In support of Mark's point, however, even Abdus Salam, who along with Weinberg and Glashow unified the electroweak force with the electromagnetic force in the 70s and won a Nobel in physics for doing it, was a devout Muslim (a majority of Pakistanis claim that he was Ahmadi, ergo not a true Muslim - but that's bollocks). Now did Salam believe that Mohammed went to heaven on a winged horse? Probably not. I'd wager that he interpreted the Night Journey in the Quran as a dream.
We all have our personal take on what parts of religious doctrine make sense and what parts don't. The belief that Jesus was the literal son of God may not be held by all 'Christians' - there's very little evidence it was held to be true by James himself, and so you can be non-Trinitarian (or even Jewish, believing that Yehoshua was a great religious teacher but not the Messiah, because the Messiah is a cock and bull fable dreamed up by ignorant goat herders) and still adhere to some 'Christian' beliefs.
Why do many smart people still think that there's a grand plan behind it all? Because the universe is infinite in its complexity, and we are but gibbering idiots, even the smartest of us. It is the argument from Job.
I like to think that there's a grand pattern, even if it doesn't include me or make my conscious existence anything other than an accidental and temporary byproduct of a cunning plan.