12-11-2016, 12:34 PM
"How important is meter and repetition to the form".
"For instance, can there be 8,9,7 syllables per line, changing up the pattern within the poem? as long as the repeats are in the right place?
Do the repeats have to be exact or would it fly to change a word here and there?"
It's a good 10 years since I was at university... but the ones I remembered studying with this form were Dylan Thomas and Sylvia Plath, being honest, without those particular bits of education, I doubt I'd have even heard of the form!
I am a fan of SP (not a huge one though) and I am indifferent to Thomas... but after reading yours, I looked again at theirs. The rhyme is important, I understand keeping to the dual rhyme is what makes it, maybe throw a half rhyme for effect if it is a crucial line, a very strong combination of sounds and an unusual word choice, so the chosen half rhyme stands out yet further from the "cliche" (as you feared) of a 2 rhyme poem. Syllables, I think, if a piece is intended vocally, should never be overly revered. Adhering to a meter religiously can often make something a weaker read than purposeful variation (think I say that a lot on here but that's my opinion, lots disagree!)
I think what can make the poem technically awesome on paper is the word choice/sounds within each line, how they build up or link with the last word of each line that fits the dual rhyme, perhaps then the cliched end rhyme is lost or unnoticed due to the previous words. I almost feel you could slap dash throw down 19 dually lined rhymes as a start then slowly build the rest from there, to write a better villanelle than just writing and worrying about ending each line appropriately as and when.
It's a good frenzy write, don't lose the speed or energy of it in the rewrite, just polish a few lines here and there!
RBJ
"For instance, can there be 8,9,7 syllables per line, changing up the pattern within the poem? as long as the repeats are in the right place?
Do the repeats have to be exact or would it fly to change a word here and there?"
Frenzy writing is all good, I think frenzy poets are always the best read aloud. Def keep the dental imagery, reads well and has effect, just chuck something a bit stronger in that makes the following lines stronger or at least relates/opposes it.
Reformat visually is an improvement.
"For instance, can there be 8,9,7 syllables per line, changing up the pattern within the poem? as long as the repeats are in the right place?
Do the repeats have to be exact or would it fly to change a word here and there?"
It's a good 10 years since I was at university... but the ones I remembered studying with this form were Dylan Thomas and Sylvia Plath, being honest, without those particular bits of education, I doubt I'd have even heard of the form!
I am a fan of SP (not a huge one though) and I am indifferent to Thomas... but after reading yours, I looked again at theirs. The rhyme is important, I understand keeping to the dual rhyme is what makes it, maybe throw a half rhyme for effect if it is a crucial line, a very strong combination of sounds and an unusual word choice, so the chosen half rhyme stands out yet further from the "cliche" (as you feared) of a 2 rhyme poem. Syllables, I think, if a piece is intended vocally, should never be overly revered. Adhering to a meter religiously can often make something a weaker read than purposeful variation (think I say that a lot on here but that's my opinion, lots disagree!)
I think what can make the poem technically awesome on paper is the word choice/sounds within each line, how they build up or link with the last word of each line that fits the dual rhyme, perhaps then the cliched end rhyme is lost or unnoticed due to the previous words. I almost feel you could slap dash throw down 19 dually lined rhymes as a start then slowly build the rest from there, to write a better villanelle than just writing and worrying about ending each line appropriately as and when.
It's a good frenzy write, don't lose the speed or energy of it in the rewrite, just polish a few lines here and there!
RBJ
"For instance, can there be 8,9,7 syllables per line, changing up the pattern within the poem? as long as the repeats are in the right place?
Do the repeats have to be exact or would it fly to change a word here and there?"
Frenzy writing is all good, I think frenzy poets are always the best read aloud. Def keep the dental imagery, reads well and has effect, just chuck something a bit stronger in that makes the following lines stronger or at least relates/opposes it.
Reformat visually is an improvement.