Andrey's questions about poems (split from the intro thread)

[AndreyGaganov]

... plus the idea of qualias and abstract thoughts being concretized for understanding.

Can't the qualias and abstract thoughts be expressed and understood without concretization?

Actually, they can't. That's the point of a qualia -- it's a thing you can't transfer without abstracting a thought first, period. Ie, how the color of the hair of the girl you like is red, sure, but as for how red, you can't really say, not without either comparing it to something else (thus, metaphor), or going through the convoluted process of determining the hair's wavelength etc.

This sounds like a strong point in favor of a metaphor - describing the specifics of something using a more colorful language that many can understand, as opposed to the scientific gobbledygook. Sort of like a textual replacement for visual art. I guess my problem is that I'm not much of a fan of visual art. Therein may lie one of my major problems with poetry. I bet a lot of poetry readers here are capable of appreciating visual art as well. I'm pointing this out because lizziep here figured out that I'm looking for something profoundly emotional, not something that is merely descriptive. But hey, they all say you are supposed to experience poetry, so perhaps my expectations are "too high".

OK, so what I'm supposed to work with is (1) the visual aspect and (2) the sonic aspect (both of which I can sense, I am a human being, but not really experience), and not the poet's intent (which is still puzzling).

And the thing about abstract thoughts is that to express them without concretization is to make your thought inaccessible to about 99% of the audience -- with that other 1% getting an avenue to rape your argument in the arse by challenging your definitions.

1) Argument? Once again, I'm not here to argue a point. I'm here to be disabused of some of the notions I've developed about poetry over my lifetime.
2) Weird way to phrase it, but I'll play. (Not that I have a choice.) Who are this 1% and what definitions of mine are they willing to challenge?