12-25-2014, 08:51 AM
"I get the impression that you're a poet who is more inclined to write to a tee, to outline, to plan and ponder, which is great."
No actually, I often feel the poem is writing me, to use your terms. I have often been awakened in the middle of night, and there is a completed poem in my mind. All I have to do is write it down. If I do not engage my conscious mind the poem just falls out onto the piece of paper, so to speak. I will later go back and edit for clarity, grammar, punctuation and so forth. If there are things within the poem that can be said more straightforwardly I do so. If there are things within the poem that are difficult to express, I look for the clearest way to express it. My idea of a poet, is a person who brings complex, or new, ideas and perceptions into the world, as these are already difficult enough to comprehend I do not see the point of adding unnecessary ambiguity to the writing. If what is happening within the poem is a man sitting at a coffee table smoking, then say that. If he leaves, say that. Don't make simple action complex. The same with description. Do not take a straightforward description and make it complicated. To do so is pure sophistry. I would say, "in my opinion", but that is simply not accurate. I have been writing and reading poetry for well over 40 years. At various times of those 40+ years, I have read and studied poetic criticism; not the ludicrous theories written by most academics, but insightful criticism by top level poets such as Coleridge, in his "Biographia Literaria". I have also been the editor of a poetry magazine, albeit a University one. The point being, I am not just some duff of the streets who thinks doggerels in the bathroom stalls are the highest form of poetry. I don't say this to toot my own horn, but to show that there is some weight behind what I am saying; this is not just purely my opinion.
I don't understand (actually I do as I have done the same when I was younger), why someone would think it is a good idea to leave necessary parts of the sequence of events out, whose only function is to make the reading more difficult on the reader. You might notice stream of "Stream of Consciousness" never really caught on, although there are the brave few who still attempt it. My suggestion as to why this is, is it requires to much from its readers. A person doesn't mind to work with a poem for the deeper meaning, or insight, but seldom are they willing to do so just to find out the sequence of events or other things that should be fairly obvious (I am thinking of your other poem "Andrew's Square", or something to that effect. On your poem above, there is little in terms of concept that is difficult, it is that the poem has been written in a difficult manner. Even Jack who gave you a more or less positive review (and I concur with him that you have some good individual lines) said that he had no idea what the poem was about. I would like to save you the 10 to 15 years I wasted writing this sort of thing, because I think you have some talent. I do not know why you choose to purposely obscure/ make things unnecessarily ambiguous, but I can tell you why I did... but I think I will not do so in an open forum. Should you care to know, you can PM me, or you are perfectly within your rights to disregard me as an old lunatic who has lost his mind as many people do. If I had remembered you were the one who wrote "Andrew's Square" I would not have bothered beating a dead horse, I will try to refrain in the future. The problem is you avatar. Anything dealing with Space Ghost, or any Hanna-Barbara cartoon really, just draws me in just like a nit to a hair follicle.
Dale
No actually, I often feel the poem is writing me, to use your terms. I have often been awakened in the middle of night, and there is a completed poem in my mind. All I have to do is write it down. If I do not engage my conscious mind the poem just falls out onto the piece of paper, so to speak. I will later go back and edit for clarity, grammar, punctuation and so forth. If there are things within the poem that can be said more straightforwardly I do so. If there are things within the poem that are difficult to express, I look for the clearest way to express it. My idea of a poet, is a person who brings complex, or new, ideas and perceptions into the world, as these are already difficult enough to comprehend I do not see the point of adding unnecessary ambiguity to the writing. If what is happening within the poem is a man sitting at a coffee table smoking, then say that. If he leaves, say that. Don't make simple action complex. The same with description. Do not take a straightforward description and make it complicated. To do so is pure sophistry. I would say, "in my opinion", but that is simply not accurate. I have been writing and reading poetry for well over 40 years. At various times of those 40+ years, I have read and studied poetic criticism; not the ludicrous theories written by most academics, but insightful criticism by top level poets such as Coleridge, in his "Biographia Literaria". I have also been the editor of a poetry magazine, albeit a University one. The point being, I am not just some duff of the streets who thinks doggerels in the bathroom stalls are the highest form of poetry. I don't say this to toot my own horn, but to show that there is some weight behind what I am saying; this is not just purely my opinion.
I don't understand (actually I do as I have done the same when I was younger), why someone would think it is a good idea to leave necessary parts of the sequence of events out, whose only function is to make the reading more difficult on the reader. You might notice stream of "Stream of Consciousness" never really caught on, although there are the brave few who still attempt it. My suggestion as to why this is, is it requires to much from its readers. A person doesn't mind to work with a poem for the deeper meaning, or insight, but seldom are they willing to do so just to find out the sequence of events or other things that should be fairly obvious (I am thinking of your other poem "Andrew's Square", or something to that effect. On your poem above, there is little in terms of concept that is difficult, it is that the poem has been written in a difficult manner. Even Jack who gave you a more or less positive review (and I concur with him that you have some good individual lines) said that he had no idea what the poem was about. I would like to save you the 10 to 15 years I wasted writing this sort of thing, because I think you have some talent. I do not know why you choose to purposely obscure/ make things unnecessarily ambiguous, but I can tell you why I did... but I think I will not do so in an open forum. Should you care to know, you can PM me, or you are perfectly within your rights to disregard me as an old lunatic who has lost his mind as many people do. If I had remembered you were the one who wrote "Andrew's Square" I would not have bothered beating a dead horse, I will try to refrain in the future. The problem is you avatar. Anything dealing with Space Ghost, or any Hanna-Barbara cartoon really, just draws me in just like a nit to a hair follicle.
Dale
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.