Translations of Goethe; Ongoing Project

[milo]

jringo,

One suggestion I have, before diving in full bore with you, is to use whatever resources you have available to try and retain, with as much exactitude as possible, both meter and rhyme. To this end, there are lots of German-English dictionaries, translation tools, and thesauri available online. This approach of course makes the challenge of translation that much greater, and to achieve the ideal it prescribes is not always possible. BUT, at the end of it all, I think you will be much more pleased with the result, especially when dealing with the work of someone like Goethe, for whom both were so important. There are after all so many synonyms that every word has that are worth exploring, and for me, the process is actually quite a bit of fun. DISCLAIMER: This is just the approach I've used when trying to translate some of Hesse's poetry from German, and as my translations are neither known or authoritative, the approach I prescribe is by no means authoritative.

I have considered this for the reason you describe: Goethe used meter and rhyme as law. This is as, in my opinion, he was one of the first romantic poets. Wordsworth and Coleridge would be the English equivalents. English poets haven't written like that since Yeats, and I agree with that sentiment; adhering to such patterned form most often becomes detrimental. Contemporary English poetry uses meter and rhyme in a different effect. If a pattern is created, what does breaking from the pattern do to the reader? If no pattern is established, what will a rhyming couplet do?

An example, though not very contemporary, but one of the best (as this concept at its root deals with how stress is fundamental to the English language, and Blake is a god of stress):

BLAKE, The Sick Rose

O Rose thou art sick.
The invisible worm,
That flies in the night
In the howling storm:

Has found out thy bed
Of crimson joy:
And his dark secret love
Does thy life destroy.

The penultimate line breaks the established sing-song pattern to AMAZING effect. This is done much more subtly in today's poetry

This is the vein in which I'd like to follow my translations.

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tectak, I like the way you think.


Milo:

Vom Himmel, while a great poet and translator, wrote in the 18th Century and deviates from the German FAR more than I do.

Vom Himmel means "from heaven" in German, note how it appears nowhere in the original. in fact heaven or God doesn't show up at all ni this poem by a self described "decidedly non-christian" so for you to introduce it twice and make it a central theme to the poem is poor translation.

I am beginning to see you are a strict translator.

I believe translation is one of the most difficult skills to master, especially in poetry. you need to understand not just the author but the culture and times that surrounded him so that you can accurately translate symbolism and double meaning. you should also show preference for the author's taste for sonics as well as rhyme and meter

This is good! And it is my fault for my describing my translating style in my first post. I am not a strict translator. I do not believe there is such thing as translation as a poem written in one language can never have identical effect in another. Moving on.

Here you are not translating, you are writing a poem that is inspired by another, more a loose imitation than a translation.

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Goethe uses religious language in nearly every poem. As such, his poetry is fairly open so such insertion.

now you are just being ridiculous!

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hide 1 (hd)
v. hid (hd), hid·den (hdn) or hid, hid·ing, hides
v.tr.
1. To put or keep out of sight; secrete.

hide 2 (hd)
n.
The skin of an animal, especially the thick tough skin or pelt of a large animal.

I know what the definitions are, but where does an animal skin come into play in this story?

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I disagree

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METER broken into stanzas, each number represents number of stresses in a line.

3,3,3,4 / 3,3,3,4 / 3,3,3,4 / 3,3,3,3 / 4,4,3,4 / 3,4,4,3

This pattern creates a song that concludes at the end of the first three stanzas. The fourth stanza creates a song that does not conclude. The penultimate creates a story, the final creates a conclusion.

Even if you had achieved this (which you did not) you would be writing in /accentual verse/ which is to say there is no meter.

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J

EDIT: I missed your final statement. Isn't that what this forum is for? Work shopping uncompleted works? Why would I ask intelligent individuals to critique a poem I thought finished?

Yes, that is what the forum is for, but it is unclear whether you want it developed as a translation or a poem.