10-14-2013, 12:23 AM
Hi Todd,
i know i am not officially here but actually doing this is good stress busting for me so i finished off the notes i had begun to make before everything went pear shaped.
Don't mind if we leave this for now or if we slowly chip away at it. (It does help to have something to do other than be stressed).
Editing notes.
More than happy with your starting points / questions.
I’ll start with your final question. I am hoping to move my writing from a place of random bursts of creativity into a more connected process whereby I can more fully understand what and why things work and how to communicate my ideas and images to a greater level than I currently do, as I feel that I am thinking beyond my ability to communicate my thoughts. (Which I think my notes on this poem will well demonstrate this problem). I feel like I am over thinking and working my poems and this is making them seem forced and wooden at times. I want to loosen up a bit.
1. Could you let me know what you want to leave the reader with thoughts and/or feelings?
Overall I wanted my poem to convey a sense of wonder and delight in the process that gave them the humble apple -Specifically I wanted a creation image and within this a sense of wonder about nature.
As a sub plot I wanted to convey an element of / potted version even, of the story of salvation from Genesis to the NT . I wanted the ups and downs of life to seen in parallel to the idea of it not being random chance but that there has always been a plan and a purpose.
So I guess I wanted to write something about creation / nature that made people think without it being too deep or abstract. Thought provoking, yet accessible and simple.
(The inspiration for this came from reading a book called “The Wyld woods” about a personal voyage of discovery that led the author to the birthplace of the modern apple tree. Also a follow up article I read about the area around Alma Atta (the nearest habitation to the natural fruit forests) – Which loosely translated means Father of the apple. I had been gripped by the idea of finding nature’s Eden and from this had mused on my faith. http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/a...icle/2961/ )
2. Strophe by strophe.
Pomology.
The title – I just wanted something simple that would not put people off by making them think it was a religious poem. (Did not want it to read overtly religious). Thought Pomology suggested a slightly scientific slant, thus a thinking man’s way to reference an apple. (Anything with an “ology” in has got to mean higher learning
)
The Bible is split into two sections and so the thread of thoughts in my poem followed the same. The first half (S1 – 3) was meant to represent the OT with a heavy application of ideas from Song of Songs because I have an idea that that I have been following this is a mini overview of the whole Bible from God’s perspective. (The final 4 strophe are to represent the NT with a three line conclusion)….but it all got a bit confused and intermingled come the actual write.
In my original musing I had been thinking on how a modern apple tree is grafted onto a strong rootstock. The rootstock is tailored to suit the soil, available space, altitude and rainfall of a given area. I had set out to write a poem that explored the Christian faith of being “in-grafted to Christ” a but basically found myself lacking in the skill to make this subtle and approachable to all readers. So I changed my slant to something that has a wider appeal or ambivalence in how it could be interpreted.
In the beginning, from Alma Ata, Wanted the poem to have a story like feel. Naming the place I felt grounded the story as real. Sub text:- The opening three words are so iconic that I felt it would nail my flag to the mast of meaning from the first and having got it out of the way I would then be free to not have any directly identifiable bible references throughout the rest of the poem. I used it deliberately to plug my reader into the sub text of the poem. Had thought long on if to use the name of the place or the translation of the name (roughly translated:- Father of apples). Decided Father linked with “In the beginning” was too religious. I am still happy with the first line and felt it was effective. (Apart from the comma at the end – lost count of how many times I removed it).
the seed of life branched out. An Eden image, seed of the apple and seed of man used interchangeably. Specific choice of, “branched” connect to a tree also as in family tree. Wanted a word that would convey divergent and leaving the original path. (In tree orcharding talk this could be said to be the centre leader, which I did muse over using but thought it was too tree specific for some perhaps, so would confuse the read).
Birthed in a garden, borne on willing arms, Birthed in a garden is admittedly a bit of a story filler to move into next thought (although does have SoS connections but probably only in my mind
). The willing arms are an image from the book in that he talks of how the wild orchards are on old trade routes and that the locals traded the apples as supplies to be eaten by the travellers. In the book he charts the spread of the apple tree along the trade routes. Also for OT thread I liked the image of the men of faith exporting their faith as they travelled around and likewise them being carried by the father’s arms; had hoped that some of this image might translate – not convinced it does but I still like the willing arms image.
fed by abundant springs. Vented portent. Abundant springs is a frequent reference in Bible, the springs and wells carry a lot of significance for spiritual meaning. Is a direct lift from both the book – the mountain area of the forests are fed by abundant springs and from SoS where the beloved is referred to as a garden fountain, a well of flowing water. The last two words were meant to be significant and to stand out with a statement*. In this case to indicate an outspoken / vocalised purpose or plan ascribed to the things listed as happening to date through the narrative. Also to connect the idea of the spring of water that gives life being what has carried this event forward through time and allowed it to prosper. A hint to suggest the work of the Holy Spirit (…or at least in my tiny and confused mind all of the above was going on in my thought process
)
*I had an idea of playing with a set form / style –and arrived at the thought of wanting the last two words to be significant and to carry a theme through the poem as a whole, to tell a sub story. I deliberately chose the “ent” word list as it gave me a lot of options to choose from. On later reading this now seems forced and I’m thinking it actually detracts from the message by being unsubtle.
Outstanding in the forest. SoS reference. “Like an apple tree amongst the trees of the forest is my beloved among the young men”. A key image / text for me in my original musing. This whole strophe was what first came to me. I sort of worked out from this place and wrote the rest of the poem around it. Originally it was my first strophe.
In the wild woods of Kazakhstan, The book makes a strong case to argue that all modern apples came from this region. Sub text:- In and of the world before salvation. (Hiding from God amongst a multitude of other faiths).
on the ridges of the Tian Shan mountains. Again a physical region reference. Sub text: SoS reference – the dove in the clefts and hidden amidst the pagan mountain practices – In a lofty spiritual place but not in a place of spiritual comfort or peace
The mother tree bears her load. Firming up what is under discussion, a original type of tree, in this case an apple. Sub text:-Answers what the question of what is outstanding. (Now see punctuation needs to be improved to clarify this concept). The mother tree = Jewish faith of Jesus. (Jewish because of mother). Bears her load – trials and suffering of Mary. Jesus is the outstanding fruit tree. The original apple hanging on the tree (in Eden) before it was plucked and despoiled. (Original sin leading to the branching of ways and being lost up on the high places amongst a multitude of other trees). The load is the fruit of Jesus replicated in every seed (believer) that has been planted. So this is the in-grafting concept that I originally wanted to write about now re-worked.
Noted and worthy ascent. Summing up this strophe -- Salvation can be found in the spiritual heights of the birthplace (of faith) - within the Jewish faith, for those who ascend this way; the benefits are great. (There is a richness in knowing our rootstock heritage) Obviously this is way too much information and imagery to be carried in a routine read. (Just offering the background thoughts). I hoped that what might commonly be picked up was the idea of there being a parallel between what happened in nature (spreading out from Eden) – with what happened to the seeds of faith in the OT and in the new. – It has spread and multiplied and become many different colours and flavours but an apple is still an apple).
Perhaps enough already with the notes! I will leave it here for now. The rest of the notes I can gladly supply, but suffice to say that I think this more than amply demonstrates my over thinking problem.
So in a nutshell and trying to be as harsh and honest as I can
Stanza 1, 2 & 3 I am locked into SoS imagery and my original ideas. It sort of works in that it carries a strong message as I read it, (but then I am finding it hard to read this objectively and without my background thoughts). It does feels very stilted.
Stanza 4 & 5 I am trying to break free and inject some freedom and life into my text with some richer nature images. Seems at odds with the beginning and end. A bit like an interlude in a film.
Stanza 6 & 7 I am trying to force my poem back into the original story line box. Horrible. Faux spiritual and poetic. Needs major re-work.
Stanza 8 just looks like I gave up / got bored and rushed off a one minute wonder to be done with it.
i know i am not officially here but actually doing this is good stress busting for me so i finished off the notes i had begun to make before everything went pear shaped.
Don't mind if we leave this for now or if we slowly chip away at it. (It does help to have something to do other than be stressed).
Editing notes.
More than happy with your starting points / questions.
I’ll start with your final question. I am hoping to move my writing from a place of random bursts of creativity into a more connected process whereby I can more fully understand what and why things work and how to communicate my ideas and images to a greater level than I currently do, as I feel that I am thinking beyond my ability to communicate my thoughts. (Which I think my notes on this poem will well demonstrate this problem). I feel like I am over thinking and working my poems and this is making them seem forced and wooden at times. I want to loosen up a bit.
1. Could you let me know what you want to leave the reader with thoughts and/or feelings?
Overall I wanted my poem to convey a sense of wonder and delight in the process that gave them the humble apple -Specifically I wanted a creation image and within this a sense of wonder about nature.
As a sub plot I wanted to convey an element of / potted version even, of the story of salvation from Genesis to the NT . I wanted the ups and downs of life to seen in parallel to the idea of it not being random chance but that there has always been a plan and a purpose.
So I guess I wanted to write something about creation / nature that made people think without it being too deep or abstract. Thought provoking, yet accessible and simple.
(The inspiration for this came from reading a book called “The Wyld woods” about a personal voyage of discovery that led the author to the birthplace of the modern apple tree. Also a follow up article I read about the area around Alma Atta (the nearest habitation to the natural fruit forests) – Which loosely translated means Father of the apple. I had been gripped by the idea of finding nature’s Eden and from this had mused on my faith. http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/a...icle/2961/ )
2. Strophe by strophe.
Pomology.
The title – I just wanted something simple that would not put people off by making them think it was a religious poem. (Did not want it to read overtly religious). Thought Pomology suggested a slightly scientific slant, thus a thinking man’s way to reference an apple. (Anything with an “ology” in has got to mean higher learning
)The Bible is split into two sections and so the thread of thoughts in my poem followed the same. The first half (S1 – 3) was meant to represent the OT with a heavy application of ideas from Song of Songs because I have an idea that that I have been following this is a mini overview of the whole Bible from God’s perspective. (The final 4 strophe are to represent the NT with a three line conclusion)….but it all got a bit confused and intermingled come the actual write.
In my original musing I had been thinking on how a modern apple tree is grafted onto a strong rootstock. The rootstock is tailored to suit the soil, available space, altitude and rainfall of a given area. I had set out to write a poem that explored the Christian faith of being “in-grafted to Christ” a but basically found myself lacking in the skill to make this subtle and approachable to all readers. So I changed my slant to something that has a wider appeal or ambivalence in how it could be interpreted.
In the beginning, from Alma Ata, Wanted the poem to have a story like feel. Naming the place I felt grounded the story as real. Sub text:- The opening three words are so iconic that I felt it would nail my flag to the mast of meaning from the first and having got it out of the way I would then be free to not have any directly identifiable bible references throughout the rest of the poem. I used it deliberately to plug my reader into the sub text of the poem. Had thought long on if to use the name of the place or the translation of the name (roughly translated:- Father of apples). Decided Father linked with “In the beginning” was too religious. I am still happy with the first line and felt it was effective. (Apart from the comma at the end – lost count of how many times I removed it).
the seed of life branched out. An Eden image, seed of the apple and seed of man used interchangeably. Specific choice of, “branched” connect to a tree also as in family tree. Wanted a word that would convey divergent and leaving the original path. (In tree orcharding talk this could be said to be the centre leader, which I did muse over using but thought it was too tree specific for some perhaps, so would confuse the read).
Birthed in a garden, borne on willing arms, Birthed in a garden is admittedly a bit of a story filler to move into next thought (although does have SoS connections but probably only in my mind
). The willing arms are an image from the book in that he talks of how the wild orchards are on old trade routes and that the locals traded the apples as supplies to be eaten by the travellers. In the book he charts the spread of the apple tree along the trade routes. Also for OT thread I liked the image of the men of faith exporting their faith as they travelled around and likewise them being carried by the father’s arms; had hoped that some of this image might translate – not convinced it does but I still like the willing arms image.fed by abundant springs. Vented portent. Abundant springs is a frequent reference in Bible, the springs and wells carry a lot of significance for spiritual meaning. Is a direct lift from both the book – the mountain area of the forests are fed by abundant springs and from SoS where the beloved is referred to as a garden fountain, a well of flowing water. The last two words were meant to be significant and to stand out with a statement*. In this case to indicate an outspoken / vocalised purpose or plan ascribed to the things listed as happening to date through the narrative. Also to connect the idea of the spring of water that gives life being what has carried this event forward through time and allowed it to prosper. A hint to suggest the work of the Holy Spirit (…or at least in my tiny and confused mind all of the above was going on in my thought process
)*I had an idea of playing with a set form / style –and arrived at the thought of wanting the last two words to be significant and to carry a theme through the poem as a whole, to tell a sub story. I deliberately chose the “ent” word list as it gave me a lot of options to choose from. On later reading this now seems forced and I’m thinking it actually detracts from the message by being unsubtle.
Outstanding in the forest. SoS reference. “Like an apple tree amongst the trees of the forest is my beloved among the young men”. A key image / text for me in my original musing. This whole strophe was what first came to me. I sort of worked out from this place and wrote the rest of the poem around it. Originally it was my first strophe.
In the wild woods of Kazakhstan, The book makes a strong case to argue that all modern apples came from this region. Sub text:- In and of the world before salvation. (Hiding from God amongst a multitude of other faiths).
on the ridges of the Tian Shan mountains. Again a physical region reference. Sub text: SoS reference – the dove in the clefts and hidden amidst the pagan mountain practices – In a lofty spiritual place but not in a place of spiritual comfort or peace
The mother tree bears her load. Firming up what is under discussion, a original type of tree, in this case an apple. Sub text:-Answers what the question of what is outstanding. (Now see punctuation needs to be improved to clarify this concept). The mother tree = Jewish faith of Jesus. (Jewish because of mother). Bears her load – trials and suffering of Mary. Jesus is the outstanding fruit tree. The original apple hanging on the tree (in Eden) before it was plucked and despoiled. (Original sin leading to the branching of ways and being lost up on the high places amongst a multitude of other trees). The load is the fruit of Jesus replicated in every seed (believer) that has been planted. So this is the in-grafting concept that I originally wanted to write about now re-worked.
Noted and worthy ascent. Summing up this strophe -- Salvation can be found in the spiritual heights of the birthplace (of faith) - within the Jewish faith, for those who ascend this way; the benefits are great. (There is a richness in knowing our rootstock heritage) Obviously this is way too much information and imagery to be carried in a routine read. (Just offering the background thoughts). I hoped that what might commonly be picked up was the idea of there being a parallel between what happened in nature (spreading out from Eden) – with what happened to the seeds of faith in the OT and in the new. – It has spread and multiplied and become many different colours and flavours but an apple is still an apple).
Perhaps enough already with the notes! I will leave it here for now. The rest of the notes I can gladly supply, but suffice to say that I think this more than amply demonstrates my over thinking problem.
So in a nutshell and trying to be as harsh and honest as I can
Stanza 1, 2 & 3 I am locked into SoS imagery and my original ideas. It sort of works in that it carries a strong message as I read it, (but then I am finding it hard to read this objectively and without my background thoughts). It does feels very stilted.
Stanza 4 & 5 I am trying to break free and inject some freedom and life into my text with some richer nature images. Seems at odds with the beginning and end. A bit like an interlude in a film.
Stanza 6 & 7 I am trying to force my poem back into the original story line box. Horrible. Faux spiritual and poetic. Needs major re-work.
Stanza 8 just looks like I gave up / got bored and rushed off a one minute wonder to be done with it.