where is Osama?

[Benny2guns]

Benny which articles are you posting from?
You haven't given any indication of where you're taking these articles from.
I was joking obviously Benny with my statement
about "debunking your theories."
You cannot really theorize that a building
can withstand a 600mph jet crashing into it
unless you've actually done those tests on said skyscraper
and we know absolutely that has never been done.
I watched it happen too Benny and my brother was in the pentagon when it was hit.
Unless you set the "explosion yourself you can't know that you saw an explosion/implosion or any such thing.
You need to give us links to if you want us to not just dismiss your claims outright.
Could you tell me about the "magic bullet" in J.F.K.'s murder too?
C.B.

---

I shall be back later today with yet more articles
perhaps, to counter your theories Benny boo.
Goodnight all and have a "Gooey night"!
C.B.

I have already given the link to this info so your lack of knowledge proves to me and everyone reading this that you have no intention of reading any info in any links put up for it, these are excerpts from it, so I sudgest you start over and read all of the information supplied and stop with the taunting in SD&D. With-in the given links are links to further sources. There is no question in my mind that a building certainly can be designed to withstand a plane or a jet flying into it. Thats what we do, we use science to design these things. No mater where you were when you saw this happen if you remove the shock and aw effect of two planes crashing into those towers you will see what everyone else see's that questions the original official story.
How dare you accuse me of such a thing. That will be enough of that. I could care less who you are.
Squibs
High-Velocity "Demolition Squibs" Are Visible in the Twin Towers' Collapses

A horizontal jet emerges from the northwest face of the North Tower.
Squibs are "blasting caps (initiators) used in the explosive industry to set off high explosives." 1 In discussions of the collapses of the WTC skyscrapers, the term has been appropriated to describe the physical appearance of puffs or jets of dust emerging from buildings during a demolition, caused by the detonation of explosive charges. Several such "squibs" can be seen in videos and photographs capturing the collapses of the North and South Towers.

It has been suggested that the evident squibs could have been added to the photographs and videos after the fact, given that much of this evidence has found its way onto the web via undocumented routes. However, the squibs show up in many diverse videos and photographs, and we have not been able to find any showing the squibs to be absent. A conspiracy of incredible proportions would be required to forge such convincing evidence of squibs in such diverse sources.

Squibs in the North Tower
Some of the clearest visual evidence of squibs in the North Tower is found in a video bearing the KTLA 5 banner. It shows two very distinct squibs emerging from the North Tower's northwest side, which is in profile on the tower's right, at about two and five seconds into the collapse.

Photographs
The photograph on this page shows two puffs of dust emerging from the walls well below the expanding dust cloud. The position and timing of the one on the northwest (right) face suggest that it is an early stage of the second squib seen in the KTLA 5 video.


The puff in that photo on the northeast (left) side is also visible in the first photograph on this page, but the second squib on the northwest side has already been subsumed by the dust cloud.

The first photograph on this page shows a puff of dust to the right of the visible north corner of the North Tower. That appears to be the beginning of the first squib.

Most of the photographs of the North Tower collapse show it after the second squib has already been subsumed by the dust cloud. We can find no photographs of the North Tower that should show the squibs but do not.

Videos
Other broadcasts besides KTLA 5's showed one or both of the squibs on the tower's northwest wall. This video, taken from close to the North Tower's base, shows the first squib very distinctly as a conical jet of gases that are lighter in color than the expanding dust cloud above.

This video (in wmv format) clearly shows the second squib emerging from the North Tower's northwest side.

This video broadcast by CNN provides one of the most complete records of the North Tower's collapse. It hides the squibs behind the banner, but even so you can distinctly see the second squib through the bluish semi-transparent part of the banner.

Another video shows the two squibs as clearly as the KTLA 5 video, and from a similar vantage point. It is not available on this site, but is found on the video 911: The Greatest Lie Ever Sold.

Squibs in the South Tower

Broad dust ejections emerge from mechanical equipment floors of the South Tower.
Squibs are also apparent in the South Tower's collapse, though they don't appear to be as energetic as the two North Tower squibs examined above. In this photograph a red arrow highlights a row of puffs of dust emerging from the southeast face of the South Tower about 10 floors below the bottom of the zone of total destruction.

The same squibs are clearly visible in the first two collapse sequences of this ABC News video montage of the South Tower collapse.

Gravity-Collapse Explanations
Defenders of the gravity collapse theory consistently invoke the explanation that the ejections of dust are caused by pancaking floors squeezing out air and dust. The Popular Mechanics article attacking 9/11 Truth contains the following passage.

Like all office buildings, the WTC towers contained a huge volume of air. As they pancaked, all that air--along with the concrete and other debris pulverized by the force of the collapse--was ejected with enormous energy. "When you have a significant portion of a floor collapsing, it's going to shoot air and concrete dust out the window," NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder tells PM. Those clouds of dust may create the impression of a controlled demolition, Sunder adds, "but it is the floor pancaking that leads to that perception."
NIST's final Report on the Twin Towers mentions the piston theory to attempt to explain away the ejections:

The falling mass of the building compressed the air ahead of it, much like the action of a piston, forcing material, such as smoke and debris, out the windows as seen in several videos.
There are several problems with this explanation, which we designate the piston theory.

The squibs contain thick dust of a light color, apparently from crushed concrete and gypsum. But these materials would not have been crushed until the pancaking floors above impacted the floor emitting the squib. Thus the dust would not be produced until the air was already squeezed out, so there was no source of the dust for the squib.
The squibs emerge from the facade 10 to 20 floors below the exploding rubble cloud inside of which the tower is disintegrating. The thick clouds appear to contain the pulverized concrete of the floor slabs, which was the only concrete component of the tower. But the piston theory requires that the floors have already pancaked down to the level of the squib, making them unavailable for the production of the concrete dust more than 10 floors above.
The piston theory requires a rather orderly pancaking of the floor diaphragms within the intact sleeve of the perimeter wall. Such a process should have left a stack of floor diaphragms at the tower's base at the end of the collapse. But there was no such stack. In fact, it is difficult to find recognizable pieces of floor slabs of any size in Ground Zero photographs.
The North Tower exhibits three distinct sets of squibs at different elevations of the building. Each set is visible as two distinct squibs on the same floor, one emerging from about the horizontal center of each of the tower's two visible faces. This pattern is is far too focused and symmetric to be explained by the piston theory, which would produce similar pressures across each floor and over successive floors.
The pancaking of floors within the perimeter wall would have created underpressures in the region above the top pancaking floor. But we seen no evidence of dust being sucked back into the tower.


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Shattering of Structure
The Twin Towers' Frames Disintegrated Before Falling

This photograph shows the top of the South Tower disintegrating as it has only just begun to fall. Note the curves in the edges of the walls above the zone of collapse.
There is clear visual evidence that the structural frames of many stories above the impact zones in both towers were shattered before the tops had fallen significant distances. The evidence is particularly strong in the case of the South Tower.

A movie taken from the east gives one of the most complete records of the South Tower collapse. The motion of the top revealed by the movie has some very strange features. At first the motion consists of a tipping of the approximately 30 stories above the impact zone as a unit, about a fulcrum in or around the impact zone. The tipping motion accelerates for about 2.5 seconds. Then, at about the time the first large ejections of dust start at the impact zone, the motion of the top changes: It begins to fall precipitously, and its rotation (imparted by the tipping) rapidly decelerates and virtually ceases after a second.

The rapid downward acceleration indicates that the fulcrum has been destroyed. This is difficult to reconcile with a gravity-driven collapse. Since the top had already tipped about 15 degrees, the downward force on the building's structure below the fulcrum was already decreasing. One would expect the tipping to continue, eventually resulting in the top falling like a tree.

Disappearing Angular Momentum
The deceleration of the top's rotation is even more discrediting to the idea of a gravity-driven collapse, which cannot explain the documented changes in angular momentum. Conservation of angular momentum is the tendency of a rotating solid object to continue rotating at the same rate in the absence of torque. Initially the block consisting of the top 30 stories of the tower acted as a solid object, and rotated about a fulcrum near the impact zone. Although the fulcrum was the axis of rotation, the block had two types of momentum: the angular momentum of the block around its center of gravity, and the linear momentum of its center of gravity tilting away from the tower's vertical axis. When the portion of the building below the collapse zone disintegrated, the block would preserve its angular momentum by continuing to rotate at the same rate (but the acceleration of the rotation would cease due to the removal of the torque that was being applied by intact columns at the fulcrum). But in reality, the rotation of the block rapidly decelerated as the downward plunge began. Once the fall started, any resistance it encountered from parts of the building would have imparted torque on the block in the same direction as the original fulcrum, and would have accelerated its rotation.

Given the apparent absence of any torque to counter the rotation of the block, the slowing of its rotation can only be explained by the breakup of most of the block, which would have destroyed its moment of inertia.
Concrete Pulverization
Twin Towers' Concrete Turned to Dust in Mid-Air
A striking feature of the Twin Towers' destruction was the pulverization of most of the concrete into gravel and dust before it hit the ground. This is evident from the explosive mushrooming of the towers into vast clouds of concrete as they fell, and from the fact that virtually no large pieces of concrete were found at Ground Zero, only twisted pieces of steel. 1 Estimates put the size of the particles, which also included gypsum and hydrocarbons, in the ten- to 100-micron range. 2


Some idea of the volume of the dust clouds can be obtained by examining photographs taken shortly after each tower collapsed.

The researcher calling himself plaguepuppy articulated the thoroughness of the destruction and its incompatibility with the official explanation.

In trying to come to terms with what actually happened during the collapse of the World Trade Towers, the biggest and most obvious problem that I see is the source of the enormous amount of very fine dust that was generated during the collapses. Even early on, when the tops of the buildings have barely started to move, we see this characteristic fine dust (mixed with larger chunks of debris) being shot out very energetically from the building. During the first few seconds of a gravitational fall nothing is moving very fast, and yet from the outset what appears to be powdered concrete can be seem blowing out to the sides, growing to an immense dust cloud as the collapse progresses.

The floors themselves are quite robust. Each one is 39" thick; the top 4" is a poured concrete slab, with interlocking vertical steel trusses (or spandrel members) underneath. This steel would absorb a lot of kinetic energy by crumpling as one floor fell onto another, at most pulverizing a small amount of concrete where the narrow edges of the trusses strike the floor below. And yet we see a very fine dust being blown very energetically out to the sides as if the entire mass of concrete (about 400,000 cubic yards for the whole building) were being converted to dust. Remember too that the tower fell at almost the speed of a gravitational free-fall, meaning that little energy was expended doing anything other than accelerating the floor slabs.

Considering the amount of concrete in a single floor (~1 acre x 4") and the chemical bond energy to be overcome in order to reduce it to a fine powder, it appears that a very large energy input would be needed. The only source for this, excluding for now external inputs or explosives, is the gravitational potential energy of the building. Any extraction of this energy for the disaggregation of the concrete would decrease the amount available for conversion to kinetic energy, slowing the speed of the falls. Yet we know that the buildings actually fell in about 9 seconds*, only slightly less than an unimpeded free-fall from the same height. This means that very little of the gravitational energy can have gone toward pulverizing the concrete.

Even beyond the question of the energy needed, what possible mechanism exists for pulverizing these vast sheets of concrete? Remember that dust begins to appear in quantity in the very earliest stages of the collapses, when nothing is moving fast relative to anything else in the structure. How then is reinforced concrete turned into dust and ejected laterally from the building at high speed?


Evidence indicates that the hundreds of thousands of tons of concrete in the Twin Towers was converted almost entirely to dust.
Both reports of workers at Ground Zero and photographs of the area attest to the thoroughness of the pulverization of the concrete and other non-metallic solids in the towers. 3 An examination of our extensive archives of images of Ground Zero and its immediate surroundings reveals no recognizable objects such as slabs of concrete, glass, doors, or office furniture. The identifiable constituents of the rubble can be classified into just five categories:

pieces of steel from the towers' skeletons
pieces of aluminum cladding from the towers' exteriors
unrecognizable pieces of metal
pieces of paper
dust
Despite the presence of 400,000 cubic yards of concrete in each tower, the photographs reveal almost no evidence of macroscopic pieces of its remains.

Pyroclastic Flows
Many observers have likened the Towers' destruction to volcanoes, noting that the Towers seemed to be transformed into columns of thick dust in the air. An article about seismic observations of events in New York City on 9/11/01, relates the observations of scientists Won-Young Kim, Lynn R. Sykes, J.H. Armitage:

The authors also noted that, as seen in television images, the fall of the towers was similar to a pyroclastic flow down a volcano, where hot dust and chunks of material descend at high temperatures. The collapse of the WTC generated such a flow, though without the high temperatures. 4
Vast Volumes of Dust
Dust From Collapses Expanded to Many Times The Towers' Volumes

This photograph shows the dust from the North Tower disintegration about 30 seconds after the start of its disintegration.
Both Towers exploded into vast dust clouds, which photographs show to be several times the volumes of the intact buildings by the time the destruction reached the ground. The dust clouds continued to expand rapidly thereafter, growing to easily five times the buildings' original volume by 30 seconds after the initiation of each collapse.

The dust clouds rapidly invaded the surrounding city, filling the cavernous spaces between nearby skyscrapers in seconds. Eyewitness reports were consistent that it was impossible to outrun the dust clouds. Photographs can be used to calculate the speed at which the dust cloud from the North Tower grew. There is a photograph of the North Tower dust showing the spire and showing dust 700 feet in front of the nearest part of the building's footprint. That distance is calculated using buildings as reference points. Since it is known from real-time movies that the spire fell about 30 seconds after the initiation of the collapse, and that it took about 10 seconds for the bottom of the dust cloud to reach the ground, the average speed of advance on the ground in that direction was approximately 35 feet per second.

Another feature of the dust clouds was that they upwelled in immense columns, climbing to over the height of Building 7 (over 600 feet) in the seconds immediately after each collapse.

Such behavior clearly indicates the input of huge quantities of heat far in excess of what the friction of a gravity-driven collapse could produce.
Shredding of Steel
Twin Towers' Steel Frames Ripped to Small Pieces

This section of a larger photograph of the North Tower's destruction shows metal objects -- steel column sections and aluminum cladding -- being propelled away from the Tower.
A feature of the collapses that is less obvious than the symmetrically mushrooming tops or the vast clouds of concrete dust is their effect on the towers' steel frames.

The only large remnants of the towers standing after the collapses were base sections of the perimeter walls extending upward several stories. Some of these sections were about 200 feet wide by 80 feet tall. Virtually all of the remaining steel was broken up into small pieces:

There were no remnants of the core structures that rose much above the rubble piles.
Most of the perimeter walls above the standing bases were broken up into the three-floor by three-column prefabricated sections, and many of those sections were ripped apart at the welds.
There were no large sections of the corrugated pans underlaying the floor slabs or the trussing beneath them.
If it were possible for the towers to have collapsed of their own weight, they would have exhibited a pattern of destruction very different from this. What would the collapse look like if all structure throughout a tower suddenly lost 95 percent of its strength, leaving the building too weak to support gravity loads?
The core columns, being thicker than perimeter columns, and abundantly cross-braced, would have deflected falling rubble, and would have out-survived the perimeter walls.
The accumulation of forces as the collapse progressed would have damaged portions of the outer wall closer to the ground more than higher portions, despite the thicker gauge of the steel lower in the tower.
The rubble pile would have contained a stack of floor platters, since gravity would have pancaked, not shredded, them.

Symmetry
The Demolition-Like Symmetry of the Twin Towers' Falls

This photograph shows the South Tower about five seconds into its "collapse" from the west. This was the less symmetrical of the two collapses.
Getting buildings to fall vertically (i.e.: symmetrically about their vertical axes) is what the art and science of controlled demolition are all about. By causing a building to fall vertically into its footprint, demolitions experts avoid damage to surrounding buildings. This is achieved through the careful placement and timing of explosives so as to cause the simultaneous and symmetric failures of all the main structural supports. Given the strength and resilience of steel, the failure to break even one of the major columns in a steel-framed building could cause it to tip to one side as it collapsed.

It is inconceivable that any random event or combination of events, such as aircraft collisions, fires, or fuel tank explosions, could cause the simultaneous failure of all the support columns in a building -- especially a tall steel-framed building -- needed to cause it to collapse vertically.

Both of the Twin Tower collapses exhibited remarkable symmetry. The North Tower's collapse commenced suddenly. The top of the tower seemed to effortlessly telescope down into the intact portion of the building. The collapse remained symmetrical from start to finish. The South Tower's collapse behavior was more complex. Its top first tipped for about two seconds, then started to descend. Despite the initial asymmetry of the collapse, it became more and more symmetric after the top started to fall. Once the top disappeared into the enormous dust cloud, there was no further evidence that the top had started to topple, except for a leaning anvil-shaped cloud of darker dust.

The centered collapses meant the falling mass followed the path of maximum resistance. That's the opposite of how we expect a structure to behave when it falls apart in any kind of natural process. Even if the towers were made out of clay, we wouldn't expect them to collapse in such a dead-centered fashion. It's all the more incredible that a steel structure would shred itself by falling into itself instead of falling over.


These photographs show the South Tower from the south at about two seconds and eight seconds after its top started to plunge downward. They show that the collapse became more symmetric as it progressed. Any natural collapse would have become less symmetric as it progressed.
There are many examples of steel-framed buildings undergoing unintentional collapses as a result of severe earthquakes. In contrast to the destruction of the Twin Towers, no such collapses have been vertical or total -- let alone explosive. Rather, steel-framed buildings destroyed by earthquakes have toppled.
Mushrooming Tops
The Twin Towers' Tops Mushroomed As They Fell

In this photograph of the South Tower about six seconds into its destruction, the mushrooming cloud has already grown to three times the building's width. Note the dust ejection well below the mushrooming top (red arrow).
Both of the twin towers exhibited a mushrooming behavior as they collapsed, resulting in the dispersion of their steel over areas several times the size of their footprints. The mushrooming plumes of dense dust and steel began at the impact zones, and rapidly expanded. By about five seconds into each collapse the diameter of the mushrooming plume was about three times the diameter of the tower.

It is not immediately obvious to what extent the mass of the destroyed portion of the towers was dispersed throughout the clouds. However, several pieces of evidence show that most of the towers' mass landed outside of their footprints in a highly symmetric distribution.

Photographs of the collapses show that many pieces of metal were hurled far from the towers, slightly beyond the frontiers of the dust clouds. Although some of that material may be the exterior aluminum cladding, several photos show large assemblies of the perimeter walls hundreds of feet from the towers.
The huge hole in WTC 6 seems only explainable as the result of falling pieces of the north wall of the North Tower. The centerline of that hole is approximately 150 feet away from the tower's north wall, giving an indication of the average lateral distance its steel constituents were thrown.
The mounds of twisted steel pieces at Ground Zero were nearly as high outside of the towers' footprints as within.
There are no photographs of the mushrooming tops of the towers in FEMA's official report -- just one poor photo of the South Tower early in its collapse -- but there is a nice graphic of the distribution of the perimeter wall column pieces (right).
Speed of Fall
The Towers' Tops Fell Virtually Unimpeded
The time it took the Towers to fall may be one of the most important pieces of evidence in determining their mode of destruction.

It is widely accepted that both Towers completely fell (nearly everything but the dust reached the ground) in around ten seconds. This estimate appears to be based mainly on seismic data. However, video evidence of the North Tower collapse suggests that it took close to 15 seconds for the destruction to reach the ground. Establishing a precise time of duration for each fall may not be possible, but there are measurements that can be made. Video records show that each Tower's top began its fall precipitously, and show the falling tops for a few seconds before they disappeared into the exploding dust clouds. It is also possible to track other features of the waves of destruction that traveled down each Tower. In both collapses dust clouds, exhibiting the behavior of pyroclastic flows associated with volcanoes, rapidly grew as they fell. 1 Each cloud consumed its Tower's top in a few seconds, then continued to descend, remaining centered around the Tower's axis. Each cloud had a fairly well-defined top and bottom, whose descent can be timed using video records.

Despite the availability of detailed studies of collapse times based on the compositing of video and photographic evidence, and in-depth analysis of the seismic records, many commentors have incorrectly treated the durations of the largest seismic signals as synonymous with total collapse times. Statements that the Towers fell in eight and ten seconds have been repeated by both proponents and critics of the official explanation.


Meaning of the Seismic Records
Seismic records of the Twin Tower collapses show a large signal for each collapse lasting just under 10 seconds. The durations of the large signals are widely equated with the durations of the collapses themselves. However, the signals may correspond to only parts of the collapse events, such as the rubble reaching the ground.

Consider the seismic records of the closest seismic recording station, at Palisades, NY (PAL). They show a very similar pattern for the leveling of WTC 1 and 2. In both cases there is about five seconds of high-amplitude movement, followed by about three seconds of movement at less than half that amplitude, and then by about 15 seconds of much weaker movement. In addition there is some still weaker movement starting about 12 seconds before the onsets of the high-amplitude movement. The main difference is that for WTC 1 the initial high-amplitude phase builds in intensity to a much higher spike than any seen for WTC 2.
The fact that the largest movement is followed by smaller movement has been cited as evidence that bombs, detonated at the starts of the collapses, generated the large movement, and that the debris impacting the ground contributed to the smaller subsequent movement. However, bombs, if detonated underground, would have generated strong P waves in addition to S waves. The fact that only strong S waves were reported is consistent with the theory that the largest movement was caused by building remains hitting the ground.

Tracking the Tops
The time of onset of collapse is clear in the North Tower, which initiates its telescoping collapse in an instant. The case of the South Tower is complicated by the fact that the top leans for a few seconds before beginning its vertical descent. Although determining the onset of vertical collapse in the South Tower is more difficult, its top is visible for longer and offers a longer span through which to time the rate of fall.

The South Tower
The following analysis is based on this NBC video taken from east of the Towers.

For the South Tower we define onset of collapse as the moment downward movement of the highest point of the roof starts. Unfortunately this time is difficult to determine since the roofline is obscured by smoke when the fall begins. The fall is preceded by a leaning movement that starts at about the beginning of the video clip, and accelerates for about three seconds. At somewhere between two and three seconds, the top starts to fall. Once the top starts to lean, the highest point of the roof is the northwest edge. At about 2.5 seconds, the top starts to fall. A good marker for this is a small white squib that emerges from the level of the impact zone about three-quarters of the way back on the right face. That immediately precedes the first large ejections from the southeast face.

Using that marker it is possible to time the fall of the South Tower's top up to the moment it gets swallowed up by the dust cloud. At that point the dust cloud rises only slightly above the level of the 78th-floor sky lobby visible as a two-story band on the adjacent North Tower. A small extrapolation gives a good estimate of the time of fall of the South Tower's roof to the level of the 78th floor of five seconds. That distance is about 384 feet (12 feet per story times 32 stories).

The North Tower
The top of the North Tower began to suddenly telescope about a fourth of a second after the radio Tower started to fall. In views from the north the top is swallowed up in about two seconds. The CNN live video clip shows the mushrooming dust cloud reaching the ground at about 13 seconds. As the descending pyroclastic dust cloud drops below Building 7, the rising smoke plume shifts to the east revealing the empty space except for the short-lived spire. The first glimpse of empty space where the building stood is at about 13 seconds.

Detailed analysis of the motion of the North Tower's top is provided by physics teacher David Chandler, who measured the top and concluded that, the rapid descent of the top, though slightly slower than free-fall, means that the force it exerts on the intact portion is actually less then when the building is motionless.

The roofline of WTC1 (The North Tower) begins dropping with sudden onset and accelerates uniformly downward at about 64% of the acceleration of gravity (g) until it disappears into the dust. This means it is meeting resistance equal to about 36% of its weight. The implication of this, however, is that the force it is exerting on the lower section of the building is also only 36% of the weight of the falling section. This is much less than the force it would exert if it were at rest. The acceleration data thus prove that the falling top section of the building cannot be responsible for the destruction of the lower section of the building. 2 3
A Timeline for the North Tower
It would be useful if collapse events evident in videos could be associated with seismic signal features. Since some news broadcasts have real-time clocks on their banners, it may be possible to match visual events with features of the seismic signals.

Consider the North Tower, whose entire collapse was recorded by the above-mentioned CNN live feed, which has a clock on its banner. That clock does not have a second counter, but its minute counter flips to 10:29 37 seconds after collapse starts, which places the collapse start, according to the CNN clock, at 10:28:23.

Various pages on columbia.edu put the origin time of the signal at the source at 10:28:31, plus or minus one second. This is based on an estimate of 2 km/s travel speed for the S waves, which, given the PAL station's distance of 34 KM from the WTC, gives a travel time of 17 seconds.

The CNN video suggests that it takes about ten seconds for the bottom of the mushrooming dust cloud to reach the ground, and another seven or so for the top to reach the ground. The following composite timeline combines timing estimates of collapse events from the CNN video and the PAL seismic record. It assumes rubble hitting the ground caused the large ground movement, and thus that the crumbling of the Tower prior to that caused only minor ground movement. Given that, the times from these pieces of evidence match up remarkably well.
Visit the afore mentioned website for pic's and video links.