09-01-2013, 01:51 AM
Oh yes, I think I see what you mean... I think 
Yes it does runs downhill in order to demonstrate the point. However, I don't think ending on a low note is counter to the idea about inspiration, any more than is a denouement in a short story or a novel. For music to occur you need both the sound and the silence.
In a fractal, every smaller scale is a reflection of a whole, so too you should be able to have denouement in a smaller work, though probably harder to achieve.
As Aristotle pointed out, a drama must have a large part of comedy in order to be dramatic, and vice versa for comedy. For the poem to be all richness and depth, is to drone a single note from end to end.
Very true. Contrast is a part of life. However, on a side note, watch out for Aristotle's endless categorizing.
If you only mean you were not surprised, I would suggest you anticipate the words for the dichotomy better than most. Certainly the "end with a whimper or a bang" conclusion has been much used before, although I do not necessary consider that a bad thing, the use of "period" and "exclamation" are not in themselves a trite or cliche usage in my mind, but I will concede that the form of argument is much covered ground.
Interesting, talking about cliché in terms of a poetry workshop becomes its own cliché. I really don't have a problem with much covered ground; it's how you cover the ground. Stars are brilliant and love is warm and fuzzy. And they're still worthy of words.
I'm going to read that ! as a period; that's how it comes across to me. I'm not suggesting you change it. Anyways, you seem to have enough sense to not be too swayed by this babble.
In my defense I think demanding a surprise twist in a piece so short is..well..rather demanding Theoretically your point seems valid (and I have certainly come down on that side of the argument many times in the past), but in practice I think it becomes the antithesis of what one wishes to achieve. However, I do think you bring up a valid point for poetry in general (I am not entirely sure I have responded exactly to what you have stated), and if you would like to continue to discuss it, I would welcome that.
Perhaps it was just me reading that first line and seeing a whole valley open before me and then I can only see a two lane road. This probably resides in me more than all the vast interconnections that could be. But, ultimately I can only give at best what I see.
just a few thoughts,
Bill
Thanks for the discussion. I firmly believe the discussion is where there is the most possibility for a workshop to give the poem some nutrients in the editing process.
Yes it does runs downhill in order to demonstrate the point. However, I don't think ending on a low note is counter to the idea about inspiration, any more than is a denouement in a short story or a novel. For music to occur you need both the sound and the silence. In a fractal, every smaller scale is a reflection of a whole, so too you should be able to have denouement in a smaller work, though probably harder to achieve.
As Aristotle pointed out, a drama must have a large part of comedy in order to be dramatic, and vice versa for comedy. For the poem to be all richness and depth, is to drone a single note from end to end.
Very true. Contrast is a part of life. However, on a side note, watch out for Aristotle's endless categorizing.
If you only mean you were not surprised, I would suggest you anticipate the words for the dichotomy better than most. Certainly the "end with a whimper or a bang" conclusion has been much used before, although I do not necessary consider that a bad thing, the use of "period" and "exclamation" are not in themselves a trite or cliche usage in my mind, but I will concede that the form of argument is much covered ground.
Interesting, talking about cliché in terms of a poetry workshop becomes its own cliché. I really don't have a problem with much covered ground; it's how you cover the ground. Stars are brilliant and love is warm and fuzzy. And they're still worthy of words.
I'm going to read that ! as a period; that's how it comes across to me. I'm not suggesting you change it. Anyways, you seem to have enough sense to not be too swayed by this babble.
In my defense I think demanding a surprise twist in a piece so short is..well..rather demanding
Theoretically your point seems valid (and I have certainly come down on that side of the argument many times in the past), but in practice I think it becomes the antithesis of what one wishes to achieve. However, I do think you bring up a valid point for poetry in general (I am not entirely sure I have responded exactly to what you have stated), and if you would like to continue to discuss it, I would welcome that. Perhaps it was just me reading that first line and seeing a whole valley open before me and then I can only see a two lane road. This probably resides in me more than all the vast interconnections that could be. But, ultimately I can only give at best what I see.
just a few thoughts,
Bill
Thanks for the discussion. I firmly believe the discussion is where there is the most possibility for a workshop to give the poem some nutrients in the editing process.