Senryu?

[billy]

for give me for thinking your not all there ray but below is a quote from the site you mention it isn't a reply to a post but a quote, it isn't something i tacked together, it's a quote...from your fucking source.

http://raysweb.net/haiku/pages/haiku-definition.html

Haiku Form:

English-Language haiku is incorrectly said to have a prescribed form of three lines of 5-7-5 syllables and a seasonal reference. However, there is a great deal of debate about the form of English haiku and few agree that the3-line, 5-7-5 season reference form is the only acceptable form.

What then is the form of a haiku? Some of the critical aspects of haiku form that have been mentioned are:

Brevity: one to three lines totaling 17 syllables or less; the average length of published English-language haiku is about 13 syllables. Some suggest that a better measure of brevity is that when read aloud, a haiku can be completed in one breadth. Try reading aloud the spring sun haiku (above) and see if you can do it in one breath.
Two phrases: most (not all) haiku are composed of two distinct phrases. In the spring sun haiku the phrases are: 1) spring sun and 2) cedar waxwings fill the leafless plum.
Descriptiveness: haiku describe things, what case be seen, heard, tasted, felt or smelled. They don't prescribe or tell or intellectualize or state the poet's feelings about things.
Lack of poetic devices: avoidance of traditional poetic forms such as rhyming, simile and metaphor.
Juxtaposition: the two phrases are seemingly about different elements noticed by the writer, but the relationship between them is what provides the poetic spark. In the example above, the feel of the spring sun on the body is being likened to the sight of birds (cedar waxwings) filling up a leafless tree.

sourced from the following site http://raysweb.net/senryu/haikuvssenryrshiki.html

we know what metaphors are. we know the concesus is that haikyu usually steer clear of metaphor. your paraphrasing is just that, paraphrase, sadly it's not paraphrased from any reliable source but from some sun stream of bitterness in order to porve a point after a comment that your senryu wasn't a haiku you spat your dummy like a fucking newb, it why you don't dare post in mild, novice or serious. you can't take criticism. i know this because you've told me so. it's why you post in the for fun section.

while i know, i know a little, you think you know a lot, truth is you also know very little . the difference is you concoct and paraphrase and posts replies to posts as though you're a haiku or should i say senryu god in order to bolster you ego, you're a troll ray, a troll who can't accept feedback.

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I am with Ray on this one for the following reason:

ANY pivot or turn is essentially a metaphor. Haiku have pivots, Haiku have metaphor.

(That Kigo stuff is a load of crap though)

Now, the important part about the cut, the kireji, which cuts the two parts of the haiku is that it leaves the poem open for the reader to complete. So, it's like the linked verse. You have one verse, the verse is basically unfinished. The next person has to complete that by adding a verse. The same thing happens within the bounds of the haiku, or the hokku. The two parts are sliced in half, and there's an open space which the reader, the audience, is supposed to enter into. [from] http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/at/basho/hbb04.html

the cut is used as punctuation. the reader of the poem can add whatever they wish between the ist image and the 2nd part of the image. but the actual cut is not a metaphor. they are two distinct parts.


if there' any reasonable amount of source material that says otherwise i'll gladly read it

Lack of poetic devices: avoidance of traditional poetic forms such as rhyming, simile and metaphor.

this is a quote from http://raysweb.net/haiku/pages/haiku-definition.html
a linked site ray used.

Ray Rasmussen who is the auther of the piece has written pieces for, the new zealand poetry society THE HAIKU MOMENT & BEYOND by Ray Rasmussen is one of them
part of bio reads

Ray Rasmussen currently lives in Edmonton, Canada. His haiku and haibun have been published in most of the haiku and haibun genre online and print journals. He enjoys hiking, photography and writing and occasionally teaches a University course.

and he has a pretty good site. http://raysweb.net/haiku/

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The Author

The teaching lessons on this website have been piloted in schools and colleges many times. They are written by George Marsh, who is the author of Teaching Through Poetry: Writing and the Drafting Process, published by Hodder and Stoughton in 1988. George has taught in schools, and in the teacher training departments and in the literature departments of the University of Portsmouth and University College Chichester. He has also run a poetry development programme in secondary schools for the South Downs College, Hampshire, and was Writer-in-Residence at Kingston Prison and Writer-in-Residence to the centenary of Portsmouth Football Club.

http://haiku.insouthsea.co.uk/index.htm

what he says of metaphore

Part 3 - Metaphor, simile and stylistic ornament
It is a rule with a number of notable exceptions: Haiku do not use metaphors and similes. One could quote a handful of haiku that have a metaphor or simile, to challenge the rule. Nevertheless it is true that, compared to the poetic tradition that we in the British Isles have inherited, replete with brilliant comparisons, as if the whole value of poetry lay in metaphorical ingenuity, the haiku tradition eschews the way of stunning similarities unusually combined.

http://haiku.insouthsea.co.uk/metaphor.htm

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while ther may be an instance or instances of metaphor in haiku, it's not seen as a common practice.

like all forms you can play about with them till the day comes home but a sonnet is a sonnet, a vill is a vill and a haiku is a haiku.