Senryu?

[billy]

Haiku Form:

English-Language haiku is incorrectly said to have a prescribed form of three lines of 5-7-5 syllables and a seasonal reference. However, there is a great deal of debate about the form of English haiku and few agree that the3-line, 5-7-5 season reference form is the only acceptable form.

What then is the form of a haiku? Some of the critical aspects of haiku form that have been mentioned are:

Brevity: one to three lines totaling 17 syllables or less; the average length of published English-language haiku is about 13 syllables. Some suggest that a better measure of brevity is that when read aloud, a haiku can be completed in one breadth. Try reading aloud the spring sun haiku (above) and see if you can do it in one breath.
Two phrases: most (not all) haiku are composed of two distinct phrases. In the spring sun haiku the phrases are: 1) spring sun and 2) cedar waxwings fill the leafless plum.
Descriptiveness: haiku describe things, what case be seen, heard, tasted, felt or smelled. They don't prescribe or tell or intellectualize or state the poet's feelings about things.
Lack of poetic devices: avoidance of traditional poetic forms such as rhyming, simile and metaphor.
Juxtaposition: the two phrases are seemingly about different elements noticed by the writer, but the relationship between them is what provides the poetic spark. In the example above, the feel of the spring sun on the body is being likened to the sight of birds (cedar waxwings) filling up a leafless tree.

sourced from the following site http://raysweb.net/senryu/haikuvssenryrshiki.html

one of your own expert sources i believe.

---

as to your quote by the respected expert Jane Reichhold

where did she say

[Haiku has love soul heart hate etc. only
it doesn't usually name them (there are many exceptions), it uses
natural metaphors to express them. And yes, haiku is FULL of
metaphor.

There's a great gray area where a poem can be either.

Yes, senryu don't need a season word but poems that are both do.

"who said english senryu are haiku?"
The respected expert on haiku/senryu in that link above.

Read it, she makes a good case for it. One thing's for
sure: 95% of English senryu wouldn't be Japanese senryu.

where has anyone denied this fact?

Read some of those links I included, they're by people who know
100 to a 1000 times more than we do.

stop talking through your arse

Our opinions, though we
love to spout them, are based on ignorance. (Yours, of course,
much more so than mine.) Smile

or is it actually something you concocted all this bullshit from what she actually said.?

where has anyone said a haiku can't also be a senryu?
where does Jane Reichhold "your expert" say
"it uses
natural metaphors to express them. And yes, haiku is FULL of
metaphor."
if you read your own links you'll see her explain that senryu as far as most people are concerned is a modern bastardisation in it's present form.

here's a statement from your expert that made me laugh more than i should have

. I strongly believe if a writer calls his/her work haiku, it IS haiku

i suppose if they call their three liner a sonnets, that will work for her as well.

what you're doing is pigeon pecking at your own shit, you stick up links you probably haven't read and use self inflated quotes to make it look like your expert said it.

of course rules can be broken and of course at times a haiku can look like a senryu, but there are rules both have to adhere to in order to fall into both forms. it is not a gray area, where the fuck did your statistic of 40% - 70% come from

all this shit because i said spring does not look into the look of some pice of shit or other?

personally i think you post a lot of bollox after doing cursory googles

you actually lie in post in order to gain points ...fucking sad,
and yes, i'm calling some of what you say a lie.

back to this shit

Haiku has love soul heart hate etc. only
it doesn't usually name them (there are many exceptions), it uses
natural metaphors to express them. And yes, haiku is FULL of
metaphor.

only it doesn't name them, what does it do, telephone the reader and tells them about it. of course it doesn't name them. it's because it seldom uses them.

a reader can find a metaphor in a lump of shit if they wish but the intent of the haiku is to capture a concrete image without any fucking fuss no one said it can't be funny, no one said it can't be like a senryu, no one says you can't spit a dummy if someone else calls your haiku a senryu.

you're a good poet ray, a really good poet but you're also full of shit