so you're not up to it.

[billy]

That is exactly the thing that has driven me from site to site for the past ten years or so -- despite some quite good writing on most of them, the sycophants invariably seemed to take over and even the better writers came to prefer a pat on the back to a kick up the arse. Not I -- when boot may liberally be applied, let it be so!

i know i've been on some sites just long enough to read an odd wow before exiting sharpish, so i hear what you're saying

My vision for the site has always aligned with billy's in this, I believe. Billy wanted to create a site where poets would receive honest, constructive and useful feedback no matter what their writing ability, in order that they may improve. Nobody is beyond criticism. Being afraid to say something honest to another human being is a terrible way to live -- and being the person to whom others are afraid to speak honestly must be a miserable existence under all the sugar and fluff.

yeah, that was the idea. i think what a lot of newbs think is that if they give feedback and get it wrong they'll look silly. well not to me, i'll be impressed that they're trying (eventually it'll pay off) i don't crae if someone gets it wrong i just want them to try. same with the poetry. it isn't about how good you are., it's about how much you want to improve, fro those who are really good (we do have a few of them here) it's about helping polish you into a diamond

Encourage those who are learning, certainly, but do not enable mediocrity. Poets stroking one another's egos is nothing more than mutual masturbation, and just as fruitless.

i've always stated that i'm more impressed by those new to poetry that want to learn than the fairly decent poets who think they're already good enough. i've said an odd wow, most of us have, but to get that right you have to have given honest, solid feedback on a regular level. that way we'll know that it's a genuine wow. i think with the help of other (including the members) the sites going were we hoped it wold go, it growing at a rapid rate. we probably have the least number of admin/mods than any other site of similar size and quality.

i see stuff on here everyday that amazes me, one particular persons work is often or almost always placed in the for fun forum. sometimes i'm amazed at poetry in the serious crit forum.....some of it shouldn't be there simply because the person posting in there doesn't want serious crit unless it aligns with the their own ideas about it. or they knock a poem out in 10 or twenty mins and haven't done a few edits before posting it. it's full of spelling errors (use a spell checker) or the poet would be better starting out in novice or mild.

everyone can crit, everyone can write poetry for most of the poetry population, to do either or both takes practice, the ability to learn, and a wish to genuinely improve.

---

I am never ungrateful for feedback. The crits on this site have all got something to say. I tend to stick to "serious" because that is where I imagine most serious poets expect to receive crit based upon something other than basic syntax, punctuation or spelling. The forum rules amplify this requirement.
I am, though, worried. I left my last poetry site because it had turned in to nothing more than a saccharin sect of sycophantic self-congratulatory saddos. It all started to go wrong when the crits, not the poets, started to use those hackneyed horrors...awesome, wow and blown away.
Oh, I realise that freedom of speech can often mean dumbing down. That's the way of freedom in any sphere. If I had one wish, though, it would be the complete and outright banning of these puerile terms from ALL the forums...to the betterment of poetry at every level. When the crit has really got nothing to say but wow, awesome or that he/she is "blown away" what hope for us all.
Best,
tectak

i couldn't agree more, but, and this is a big but; if you're capable of giving feedback, leave at least some in the novice section. sometimes left to their own devices new poets revert to saying as little as possible in order to post their own poetry and get the same back. they need some direction, and anyone who can post a lot in serious should really post a little in novice.