are there things you dislike about poetry

[billy]

Even if you produce nothing but turds, if you're willing to go down the chute with them, rather than wipe yourself clean of what you believe, in order to satisfy, well anyone, then that says something. Unless you have a martyr complex. But then that says something else. Sometimes a poet is insane, whatever that means; and his poetry is saying a lot, and he does wish it would make sense to somebody, like it makes sense to him. Poetry has many roads it can travel. Even a road to Hell or humiliation. The road to compromise is the only dead end in my opinion, and if you deserve to drown you have to accept that.

so you've read my turds poetry then . i really want to improve and every now and again i do, only bit by little bit but i get some of the things people are saying to me and sometimes even remember to use the advice or suggestion to good effect. i hate that not everyone who writes poetry in a workshop environment doesn't actually want the same thing. that they think they've attained the nth level of poetry and as such just post merrily all day long without leaving feedback and ignoring some of the sensible feedback others leave them (i do realise that some of the feedback is utter shit but i'm working on it )

for me it's that turdy poem that help us all. what can you say to a perfect poem? while i enjoy reading them (the perfect poems) it's often hard as to what feedback to leave as every other word is just praise.

much better the turdy poem where people can say...well how about that and does that work and is that right and thats another dozen clichés under your belt and all the other feedback stuff for turdy and semi turdy poems.

we need newbs and we need inexperience and we need that first set of pretty bad poems, we need them so we can tell where we've been and where we're aiming for, so we we can help them and ourselves become better turd writers. i've said it more than once and i'll say it again; i love a good poem from a good poet, but i crave a poem from a newborn, then i crave seeing them grow into that good poet who no longer teaches me anything.

i think someone talked about breaking the mould or thinking outside the box, about stretching oneself, and i whole heartedly agree but for fuck sake don't go too far away from the boz that you don't remember what the box is or looks like, don't stretch yourself so much that the line between comprehension and innovation snaps. be arty, be farty even but don't write gibberish and tell me it's fucking poetry. don't tell me it'
s poetry just because you stepped outside the fucking box. don't dare tell me it's fucking poetry when in fact all you're showing me is shit.
and that's what a lot of so called experienced poets do. the same as the shite experienced artist. "it's art man" well fuck off you horrible little bastard, it isn't fucking art, it's fallacy and fucking ego.

poetry, real poetry is that first attempt at writing a poem, that turdy thing that reads like shite. that's the first step into poetry that tentative step that some morons think makes them a poet. i hate them with a vengeance. and i hate their poetry because i know it will never improve or change. no, give me that first poem where the person wants to be a poet but doesn't know there a poet. where they want to learn, where they want to learn the mistakes and cliche's and all the other things that they have to learn in order to know their craft and i'll show you a poet in the making. fuck the so called poet whose "been on a writing course" or take a bachelors in "english lit" and fuck me, i do go on a bit don't i a good poet doesn't need to shout out "i'm a good poet" they just have to write poetry. if i don't get something it's usually because i don't get it. speak in big words till you've laid a line of them a mile long. but if i don't get it, i don't get it. on the odd occasion i do miss something but if i do, i have to been known to call myself silly and to the poet in question but generally if i don't get it i don't need to be told why