Rockstar

[Universalchild]

@billy

What I mean, is that there are horrible physical side effects to alcohol/tobacco abuse, just like there are with crack, not that alcohol and crack are the same in actual effects. I've never done crack personally so I can't speak completely for it, I'm basing it on what I've been told and how coke feels. I'm more interested in the psychological side effects and they are what I want to represent in this poem. You've mentioned some, and I think they're all completely valid, particularly the coke mites (although lots of drugs do that, it's not just coke/crack) and the paranoia, but there isn't really a place in my poem where they fit. It's not personal enough. Maybe I should go in more depth and explore his feelings more. I should also point out that in the beginning of the poem he isn't actually on the crack, he only smokes it at the last stanza. His mind is dull and stale because he isn't on it - crack makes you active and wired. The societal effects of crack are pretty clear - he is homeless and ignored by people, thus a "ghost". I also did mention anxiety briefly, as "fear drives him to seek solace" - and I mentioned his mind cracking (if you say someone is cracking up, it is another way of saying they are going crazy) - his life is an endless nightmare because of his addiction. I don't think my poem exactly presents crack as being a wonderful drug. I only touch on the euphoria of it once. I'm not pro-crack or anything, I'm just sympathetic to people addicted to crack, and I do preach tolerance and understanding to and of all people, including crackheads. So my poetry does reflect that.

@tectak

I'm not sure if this counts as an outside discussion, as me and Billy are still talking about my poem, I'm trying to decide whether I need to go more in-depth and personal with how I describe crack. I think our discussion has less to do with my poem, so please don't think I'm being rude by not giving a big response, because actually it's you and me that are off topic (in fact you didn't offer me crit!), I just wouldn't want to have my thread moved based on that. I am totally up for a mycology discussion though! xD

[heslopian]

Weeks of chemical abuse leave his dull mind stale,
reflection reveals dark eyes sunken, skin turned pale,
the kind of face both child-like and yet so very old, Great line.
clothes are torn and dirty, flesh is wet and cold.

Shaking, clutching his smoke, his cancerous crutch,
harmless in his sadness and so gentle in his touch, Really moving line.
but nobody can see him for he is the urban ghost, Is "but" needed?
blinded by the acrid fumes to which he is engrossed. I think "by" might be more grammatically correct than "to which".

Homeless thus forever lost, his poverty sincere, Could "homeless" be put after "lost", with a comma after it?
fear drives him to seek solace, his new motive is clear,
but cracks inside his pipe becomes the cracks inside his mind,
and it cracks in the foundations of the life he left behind. Is "it" needed?

Life a nightmare endless, but he begins to form a dream,
swirling dust, cardinal paint, some strange metallic gleam, Good line, punchy and imagistic.
these hidden dirty memories of what was once his home,
remind him why he must be free and ever must he roam. Great last couplet. Compellingly tense.

Perhaps he once was clever, for his words are full of jargon, I think "his speech is" might make more sence than "his words are". Jargon is words.
talks in hopes of pennies, which with crystals he will bargain, Shouldn't "pennies" and "crystals" be the other way around? He's a drug addict, so surely he's buying crystals with pennies (assuming "crystals" refers to drugs).
then huddles in amongst the filth and wraps himself in lies,
surrounded by a cloud of smoke in which his spirit flies. Really good last line. Crisp and effective.

Most of my suggestions are just grammatical nits. You have some really strong images here which effectively portray a character. Critique is JMHO. Thanks for the read.

[billy]

First off, thanks for taking my feedback for what it was. i was going to remove the post based on what tecktaK said. now i'm glad i didn't. i did open a discussion in the discussion forum though it is hard to have someone go from non crack head to real crack head in a few stanza
how about a two parter, part one the lead up which could show a sympathetic view, and part two the actual abuse and effects which show the real dark side his addiction. the thing is people don't always tell you everything. most drugs that lift you up eg: coke also have a down side, after the initial high and lucidity you begin to become lethargic (remember your bodies metabolism has been working in overdrive for how ever long you've been concurrently using it. some people have slept for 3 days and longer after a good coke binge, powder or crack. the paranoia which was mentioned is a huge thing for heavy coke users. it's the one main thing that tears the family unit apart. all trust vanishes. the good thing with coke and crack is that it's not as addictive as people may think. remove the drug and there's no real withdrawal symptoms. unlike cigarettes, sat and sunday users are reasonably safe unless they can afford lots. maybe write from a different POV altogether? maybe from the POV as a family member/partner or child of the abuser. hope there's an idea in there somewhere and thanks once again for taking the post as you did.

@billy

What I mean, is that there are horrible physical side effects to alcohol/tobacco abuse, just like there are with crack, not that alcohol and crack are the same in actual effects. I've never done crack personally so I can't speak completely for it, I'm basing it on what I've been told and how coke feels. I'm more interested in the psychological side effects and they are what I want to represent in this poem. You've mentioned some, and I think they're all completely valid, particularly the coke mites (although lots of drugs do that, it's not just coke/crack) and the paranoia, but there isn't really a place in my poem where they fit. It's not personal enough. Maybe I should go in more depth and explore his feelings more. I should also point out that in the beginning of the poem he isn't actually on the crack, he only smokes it at the last stanza. His mind is dull and stale because he isn't on it - crack makes you active and wired. The societal effects of crack are pretty clear - he is homeless and ignored by people, thus a "ghost". I also did mention anxiety briefly, as "fear drives him to seek solace" - and I mentioned his mind cracking (if you say someone is cracking up, it is another way of saying they are going crazy) - his life is an endless nightmare because of his addiction. I don't think my poem exactly presents crack as being a wonderful drug. I only touch on the euphoria of it once. I'm not pro-crack or anything, I'm just sympathetic to people addicted to crack, and I do preach tolerance and understanding to and of all people, including crackheads. So my poetry does reflect that.

@tectak

I'm not sure if this counts as an outside discussion, as me and Billy are still talking about my poem, I'm trying to decide whether I need to go more in-depth and personal with how I describe crack. I think our discussion has less to do with my poem, so please don't think I'm being rude by not giving a big response, because actually it's you and me that are off topic (in fact you didn't offer me crit!), I just wouldn't want to have my thread moved based on that. I am totally up for a mycology discussion though! xD

[whitewand6]

Weeks of chemical abuse leave his dull mind stale,

Nothing wrong with it. It is a .22 bang of a start. Two adjectives
however stuck out. Borderline overkill IMO. Here, as we are aware that the character in question is an addict, dull is almost an inherent image.
However weeks of abuse can make his mind stale. That's an image.

reflection reveals dark eyes sunken, skin turned pale,

May be the placement of 'dark'. W.r.t the eyes, it could be placed
along with sunken. Sunken, dark eyes.

the kind of face both child-like and yet so very old,

Love this contrast. Almost plaintive and quite potent.

clothes are torn and dirty, flesh is wet and cold.

Could be stripped a bit IMO. Are/Is are almost redundant.

Shaking, clutching his smoke, his cancerous crutch,

This is a very graphic image. The addition of crutch makes it even better putting forward the idea of dependency.

harmless in his sadness and so gentle in his touch,

Again, beautiful touch. A simple and yet powerful image.

but nobody can see him for he is the urban ghost,

I love this line. Stark and tangible. [Esp. Urban ghost]

blinded by the acrid fumes to which he is engrossed.

I feel engrossed could be replaced. It's almost too positive
a verb to used in such a sinister context. IMO.

Homeless thus forever lost, his poverty sincere,

Like I have said before these nouns/adjectives can be grouped
and I believe their essence will be intact and yet it will pack
a punch. e.g- Lost/homeless


fear drives him to seek solace, his new motive is clear,
but crack inside his pipe becomes the cracks inside his mind,

This is good writing. Very effective use of jargon.

and it cracks in the foundations of the life he left behind.

Twice was good enough. Though it works well
it is is a bit extra IMO.

Life a nightmare endless, but he begins to form a dream,
swirling dust, cardinal paint, some strange metallic gleam,
these hidden dirty memories of what was once his home,
remind him why he must be free and ever must he roam.

The character's inner belief and state has been portrayed well
here. Almost reminds me of the idealists. Hidden and Dirty can be interchanged. IMO

Perhaps he once was clever, for his words are full of jargon,

Jargon=Essentially words. A little tweak may be.

talks in hopes of pennies, which with crystals he will bargain,

Love the contrast here again.

then huddles in amongst the filth and wraps himself in lies,
surrounded by a cloud of smoke in which his spirit flies.

Huddle greatly fits in this setting. Love the last line.
Sums it up beautifully with a robust image.

I have noticed a rhyme structure. found it somehwhat irregular
and yet it works at places. May be a little edit will make it more
visceral. I like the central idea from a neutral PoV.

I won't go into the content and the whats and whys. As the writer you know your subject well
and my job is to make sure that the poem gets better than how it was last time.

Happy writing,

Regards,

Sumeet

[Universalchild]

@billy
I think there is always a risk of de-railing when you have such a sensitive subject! But we did still bring it back to the poem in the end, so I think it is justified. And it is definitely helping me with my poem. I'm going to consider what you say and when I have time I will definitely think of adding more of the negative side effects of crack-use. Although, if I do, I will also delve more into his past, because he doesn't really have a family and I think I need to make that more obvious. That is also another reason for him being a "harmless" user - no loved ones to mourn him. I will post another poem of mine soon which is about a heroin addict.


@Sumeet

I like the beat in the first line though, so "dull" would have to be replaced with something, do you have any suggestions? I was thinking of using an opposing adjective to suggest that his mind is normally wired from crack but is now stale. I dunno.

If I move the are/is then the beat goes again though... That line is an iambic one (well I might be mistaken, I'm rubbish at figuring it out xD) and I'm trying to make the poem as close to iambic pentameter as I can, although I know I fail. But I'm up for getting rid of them if I can think of a good replacement.

I can see what you mean about engrossed, I'll try and think of a better word. Really, I just used it because it was slightly similar to ghost if you pretend, hah. I'll consider changing the last line with "crack" in it.

Jargon specifically relates to words defined in relationship to a specific activity/whatever like scientific words. So what I mean, was that he uses complicated words that would suggest he probably went to university and studied at something like astro-physics.

Thank-you for your advice, I will definitely keep it all in mind when I do an edit. I need to focus on the structure more so that either I have a fixed beat or do away with it entirely.


@Heslopian

Thank-you for your comments! I will take into consideration what you have said when I do an edit!

The reason he talks in hopes of pennies is because he is begging people, and he does buy the crack. I can see why you'd get it confused though.