Posts: 122
Threads: 13
Joined: Apr 2012
V.4
Close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened…
One…
Two…
Three…
The expression on your face hasn’t changed
The echo of your words still fresh in my memory
A never ending slap
'Cause I’m not the first girl
That’s ever had a man manipulate his way
Past the button on her jeans to leave a bloody mess
Along with a whispered “hush”
Indentations of my teeth imprinted on my lips
And how proud you must be
That I’m such a bleeding disappointment
My heart pinned like a scarred badge
On my rhetorical sleeve, that refuses to drown
In the alcoholic dousing I’m happy to give it
I’m so full of wonderful obscenities
Words I never learnt from you
When silence was your motto
To the things a young girl should know
About the big bad world out there
Close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened…
And I’ll pretend I don’t know your secret
The one you’ve been hiding behind out of duty
To a man don't love
Still pretending nothing is wrong
Afraid to admit that men should never have that power
So, just close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened…
...
V.3 (Complete Overhaul)
Close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened…
One…
Two…
Three…
Memories flood my mind
With the looks of yesterday
The expression on your face hasn’t changed
The echo of your words still fresh
Like a never ending slap
Cause I’m not special, I’m not the first girl
That’s ever had a man manipulate his way into her pants
Past the button on her jeans to leave a bloody mess
Along with a whispered “hush”
Indentations of my teeth imprinted on my lips
And how proud you must be
That I’m such a bleeding disappointment
My heart pinned like a scarred badge
To my rhetorical sleeve, that refuses to burn
In the alcoholic dousing I’m all too happy to give it
I’m so full of wonderful obscenities
Words I never leant from you
When silence was your motto
To the things a young girl should know
About the big bad world out there
Fast forward this tape eleven years
Your smile still as tense as the avoidance in your gaze
Me still holding my head in defiance
Hiding behind a decade of bravado
And the silent promise that I’d never let you see me cry
Close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened…
And I’ll pretend I don’t know your secret
The one you’ve been hiding behind out of duty
To man you don’t even love
Still pretending the world is as it should be
To afraid to admit that men, should never have that power
So, just close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened.
....
V. 1
Close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened…
One…
Two…
Three… i like the start of the poem, it sets the piece up, i expect something
I’m still here, you’re still here and you’re looking at me
With such disdain, no empathy in your voice this line feels redundant. feels weak the way the poem started sort of gave me this impression already
When you say “It happens” is 'when' needed?
And I’m sorry to disappoint, but I didn’t have it coming
Sixteen years old, my innocence shattered innocence shattered feels cliche
Why didn’t you tell me all those things I didn’t know?
And I’m not special that it happened to me
The older I get the common it seems to be that men
Have so much trouble keeping it in their pants cliche
So here I am, and you’re looking at me
Like the great disappointment I am, ‘cause I’ve never amounted to anything
Still running from that look, that sends chill up my spine in teenage terror
Eleven years on and it still brings tears to my eyes
The memory of your face, when you knew and offered me nothing
More than hollow words and a look of disdain for your daughter in pain
Close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened…
A smile at your lips, tense as the avoidance in your gaze
While I’m struggling to choke down a history that won’t die
‘Cause I know your secret, and it’s fucked up that you think it’s okay
That men should have that power…
Authors note: I'm overly aware of the repetition of "still" used in this poem. Unsure how to remedy that.
"Poets are shameless with their experiences: they exploit them." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Posts: 5,057
Threads: 1,075
Joined: Dec 2009
(05-03-2012, 02:33 PM)Indie Wrote: Close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened…
One…
Two…
Three… i like the start of the poem, it sets the piece up, i expect something
I’m still here, you’re still here and you’re looking at me
With such disdain, no empathy in your voice this line feels redundant. feels weak the way the poem started sort of gave me this impression already
When you say “It happens” is 'when' needed?
And I’m sorry to disappoint, but I didn’t have it coming
Sixteen years old, my innocence shattered innocence shattered feels cliche
Why didn’t you tell me all those things I didn’t know?
And I’m not special that it happened to me
The older I get the common it seems to be that men
Have so much trouble keeping it in their pants cliche
So here I am, and you’re looking at me
Like the great disappointment I am, ‘cause I’ve never amounted to anything
Still running from that look, that sends chill up my spine in teenage terror
Eleven years on and it still brings tears to my eyes
The memory of your face, when you knew and offered me nothing
More than hollow words and a look of disdain for your daughter in pain
Close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened…
A smile at your lips, tense as the avoidance in your gaze
While I’m struggling to choke down a history that won’t die
‘Cause I know your secret, and it’s fucked up that you think it’s okay
That men should have that power…
Authors note: I'm overly aware of the repetition of "still" used in this poem. Unsure how to remedy that. are you aware of the repeat of disdain?
the title reminds me of Sylvia Plath.
the poem doesn't. i think it needs some strong images, at least 1 per verse to lift it from being tell. the fucked up line feels out of place, if it were more gritty it would work better.
the theme is a strong one and as such needs strong images to see it through. a smallish edit is all that's needed.
thanks for the read indie,
billy
Posts: 122
Threads: 13
Joined: Apr 2012
(05-03-2012, 03:13 PM)billy Wrote: (05-03-2012, 02:33 PM)Indie Wrote: Close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened…
One…
Two…
Three… i like the start of the poem, it sets the piece up, i expect something
I’m still here, you’re still here and you’re looking at me
With such disdain, no empathy in your voice this line feels redundant. feels weak the way the poem started sort of gave me this impression already
When you say “It happens” is 'when' needed?
And I’m sorry to disappoint, but I didn’t have it coming
Sixteen years old, my innocence shattered innocence shattered feels cliche
Why didn’t you tell me all those things I didn’t know?
And I’m not special that it happened to me
The older I get the common it seems to be that men
Have so much trouble keeping it in their pants cliche
So here I am, and you’re looking at me
Like the great disappointment I am, ‘cause I’ve never amounted to anything
Still running from that look, that sends chill up my spine in teenage terror
Eleven years on and it still brings tears to my eyes
The memory of your face, when you knew and offered me nothing
More than hollow words and a look of disdain for your daughter in pain
Close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened…
A smile at your lips, tense as the avoidance in your gaze
While I’m struggling to choke down a history that won’t die
‘Cause I know your secret, and it’s fucked up that you think it’s okay
That men should have that power…
Authors note: I'm overly aware of the repetition of "still" used in this poem. Unsure how to remedy that. are you aware of the repeat of disdain?
the title reminds me of Sylvia Plath.
the poem doesn't. i think it needs some strong images, at least 1 per verse to lift it from being tell. the fucked up line feels out of place, if it were more gritty it would work better.
the theme is a strong one and as such needs strong images to see it through. a smallish edit is all that's needed.
thanks for the read indie,
billy
Thank you Billy, I will take this and ponder what to do. I did realise disdain was over used in such a short poem, though it seemed much less in comparison to my many stills. I'll thesaurus my ways.
"Poets are shameless with their experiences: they exploit them." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Posts: 1,827
Threads: 305
Joined: Dec 2016
This line seems to be missing a word or two
"The older I get the common it seems to be that men"
It seems to me there are two separate theses here. One is the theme of "daughter" as disappointment, the other is a vague event of a sexual nature. I think it might work better if you were to limit yourself to one or the other, as this inter-mixture of the two makes both unclear. Plus the vagueness of the sexual event makes it difficult to understand what is being said, and how such things as "men having that kind of power" is meant to be interpreted. I'm not saying that you necessarily need to be grossly explicit, but a certain amount of context is necessary in order to make sense out of the poem, a context that is currently missing.
Dale
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
Posts: 122
Threads: 13
Joined: Apr 2012
(05-03-2012, 05:18 PM)Erthona Wrote: This line seems to be missing a word or two
"The older I get the common it seems to be that men"
It seems to me there are two separate theses here. One is the theme of "daughter" as disappointment, the other is a vague event of a sexual nature. I think it might work better if you were to limit yourself to one or the other, as this inter-mixture of the two makes both unclear. Plus the vagueness of the sexual event makes it difficult to understand what is being said, and how such things as "men having that kind of power" is meant to be interpreted. I'm not saying that you necessarily need to be grossly explicit, but a certain amount of context is necessary in order to make sense out of the poem, a context that is currently missing.
Dale
Thank you Dale for picking that up.
The content is meant to be an implication of an event, leaving a sort of vagueness regarding the event, that the mother and daughter are unable to confront. I prefer to leave what exactly going on in the mind of the reader, allowing them to make their own conclusions, whatever that may be.
"Poets are shameless with their experiences: they exploit them." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Posts: 5,057
Threads: 1,075
Joined: Dec 2009
i agree with dale that it needn't be explicit, but i do think the images should be strong. even if you want to vague as to what happened, the images can still be powerful
Posts: 478
Threads: 56
Joined: Oct 2011
Hello Indie! don't think I've had the pleasure of reading your work. With regards to my thoughts, see if there is anything worth taking
(05-03-2012, 02:33 PM)Indie Wrote: Close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened…
One…
Two…
Three…
I’m still here, you’re still here and you’re looking at me...hmm, the idea doesn't feel too fresh. I think going a little shorter could work wonders while also giving you a nifty little refrain for the piece. Maybe something like just "You're looking at me"
With such disdain, no empathy in your voice....this line could potentially be dropped; it is explained as the poem evolves
When you say “It happens”
And I’m sorry to disappoint, but I didn’t have it coming
Sixteen years old, my innocence shattered ...I felt this was a strong opportunity for more. "My innocence shattered" could easily become something like "my innocence scattered across the floorboards" or something more than one word. Imagery could make this stand out and feel new
Why didn’t you tell me all those things I didn’t know?...this question did little for me
And I’m not special that it happened to me
The older I get the more common it seems to be that men
Have so much trouble keeping it in their pants
So here I am, and you’re looking at me...here, you could use that refrain again: "You're looking at me
Like the great disappointment I am, ‘cause I’ve never amounted to anything
Still running from that look, that sends chill up my spine in teenage terror ...the two stanzas above have a bit of cliche' to them (men...pants, for example)
Eleven years on and it still brings tears to my eyes ...I would drop the it and replace it with the action subject (e.g., "Eleven years on, your face still brings...). Finding a new way to show your sadness besides "tears" could refresh the idea (e.g., the memory of your face keeps the porch light off---just playing around, but a fitting image could make the stanza stand out)
The memory of your face, when you knew and offered me nothing
More than hollow words and a look of disdain for your daughter in pain
Close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened…
A smile at your lips, tense as the avoidance in your gaze ...I wanted "tense" to be compared to something I can actually imagine, like rope or something
While I’m struggling to choke down a history that won’t die
‘Cause I know your secret, and it’s fucked up that you think it’s okay
That men should have that power…
what the heart of my comments boils down to is the following: 1) there is a lot of material that could be trimmed if you desired and
2) there are plenty of opportunities to create fresh language, but I don't feel that you are taking advantage of them now. I feel like you are setting yourself up for powerful lines, but the end result left me a little frustrated.
perhaps I went too hard with the feedback, but it is because I see potential
Written only for you to consider.
Posts: 122
Threads: 13
Joined: Apr 2012
(05-04-2012, 07:26 AM)Philatone Wrote: Hello Indie! don't think I've had the pleasure of reading your work. With regards to my thoughts, see if there is anything worth taking
what the heart of my comments boils down to is the following: 1) there is a lot of material that could be trimmed if you desired and
2) there are plenty of opportunities to create fresh language, but I don't feel that you are taking advantage of them now. I feel like you are setting yourself up for powerful lines, but the end result left me a little frustrated.
perhaps I went too hard with the feedback, but it is because I see potential
Thank for Philatone, I didn't find your crit overly harsh. It's honest, and you raise many good points. I like this poem, and realise it's not as strong in its execution as it could be, although I don't want to meddle with too much with the concept. I also realise I've outdone myself with the cliche's which wasn't my intention, and I'm grateful to have that pointed out.
"Poets are shameless with their experiences: they exploit them." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Posts: 122
Threads: 13
Joined: Apr 2012
I may have very well messed this up, but I've given this poem a complete rewrite, any advice on this new version would be great.
Thanks, Indie
"Poets are shameless with their experiences: they exploit them." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Posts: 1,827
Threads: 305
Joined: Dec 2016
Indie,
Oh yeah, I like this much better. Also much easier to offer some editing suggestions as it is just a matter of tidying up.
I think it would help to make it clear who and what it is you are talking about at the start, I'll offer this example, as it is too awkward to be a suggestion, but it is the best I can come up with at the moment. To me, this seem basically what you are trying to convey.
Memories envelop my mind
with images: the many faces of
a mother's disappointment and disapproval
that you wore in my yesterdays.
Expressions that haven’t changed;
only grown more pronounced, outlined in wrinkles.
The echo of your words still sting fresh,
like a never ending slap...
------------------------------------
Just some pruning here
that’s ever had a man manipulate his way
past the buttons on her jeans to leave a bloody mess
----------------------------------------
How proud you must feel to have confirmation
that I’m such a bleeding disappointment
with my heart pinned to my rhetorical sleeve
refusing to burn in the alcoholic dousing I’m all too happy to give it.
-----------------------------------------
To a man you don’t even love
-----------------------------------
I'd drop one of the single lines.
Sorry to be so terse, a bit rushed at the moment. Really excellent re-write though.
Dale
PS Punctuation is your friend! 
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
Posts: 122
Threads: 13
Joined: Apr 2012
I still feel like this poem needs a lot of work, though I feel like I've made headway on the concept.
"Poets are shameless with their experiences: they exploit them." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Posts: 5,057
Threads: 1,075
Joined: Dec 2009
05-08-2012, 10:33 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2012, 10:36 AM by billy.)
(05-03-2012, 02:33 PM)Indie Wrote: V.3 (Complete Overhaul)
Close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened…
One…
Two…
Three…
Memories flood my mind
With the looks of yesterday the 1st two lines after the 'Three' aren't needed, L's3, 4, and 5 make an excellent start for the poem
The expression on your face hasn’t changed
The echo of your words still fresh
Like a never ending slap is 'like needed/does it have to be a simile?
Cause I’m not special, I’m not the first girl
That’s ever had a man manipulate his way into her pants
Past the button on her jeans to leave a bloody mess
Along with a whispered “hush”
Indentations of my teeth imprinted on my lips this is what i meant about being strong. it isn't over the top, yet it's more outrageous for the reader
And how proud you must be
That I’m such a bleeding disappointment
My heart pinned like a scarred badge is 'pinned like' needed? which would need 'to being changed to 'on' on the next line.
To my rhetorical sleeve, that refuses to burn
In the alcoholic dousing I’m all too happy to give it is 'all too happy to' needed, 'i'm' would have to become 'I'
I’m so full of wonderful obscenities i like this line, it feels like you've been set free
Words I never leant from you
When silence was your motto is 'when' needed?
To the things a young girl should know
About the big bad world out there too cliche
Fast forward this tape eleven years
Your smile still as tense as the avoidance in your gaze
Me still holding my head in defiance
Hiding behind a decade of bravado
And the silent promise that I’d never let you see me cry
Close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened…
And I’ll pretend I don’t know your secret
The one you’ve been hiding behind out of duty
To man you don’t even love the or a is missing
Still pretending the world is as it should be still pretending works fine on it's own.
To afraid to admit that men, should never have that power is 'to' needed?
So, just close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened… good reinforcement
(I haven't been able to remedy everything everyone has offered so far and implement it into my poem yet, though I understand your perspective and advice.)
a big wow from me. the difference is great (in a good way) the poem feels stronger, and you still kept it from being vulgar. some of the images that are more defined work really well.
my only constructive crit is that you used a lot of packing phrases. i'm sure other will disagree but i think this sort of poem needs to be as tight as possible. anyway,; great 1st edit indie. good poem.
thanks for the new read
billy
ps, all caps on poems where grammar is used doesn't work for me. so i call foul on all caps in this one  
pps, you didn't actually use much grammar but you did use it
Posts: 122
Threads: 13
Joined: Apr 2012
"Poets are shameless with their experiences: they exploit them." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Posts: 478
Threads: 56
Joined: Oct 2011
*****
note! accidentally stumbled into the original post when I was trying to give my latest feedback on this. The original versions got deleted, but I reposted V. 1 (couldn't find the second...). I'm sorry for my absent-mindedness, hope you can forgive me
again, sorry about that... with regards to the crit, take only what you will, these are just the thoughts I had while reading
Quote:V.3 (Complete Overhaul)
Close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened…
One…
Two…
Three…
Memories flood my mind
With the looks of yesterday ..."memories" already gave me a sense of "yesterday", which really can represent any time in the past. This line felt like excess to me
The expression on your face hasn’t changed
The echo of your words still fresh ...interesting contrast of past and present. if desired, could be carried out even more
Like a never ending slap ...could drop the "like" to lose the simile and add agency to the image
Cause I’m not special, I’m not the first girl ...in some ways, just one of these phrases would be OK
That’s ever had a man manipulate his way into her pants ...could chop off "into her pants" and just keep rolling onto the next line
Past the button on her jeans to leave a bloody mess
Along with a whispered “hush”
Indentations of my teeth imprinted on my lips ...could drop the first "my" and "imprinted"---"indentations" already shows the "imprinted". nice image
And how proud you must be
That I’m such a bleeding disappointment
My heart pinned like a scarred badge
To my rhetorical sleeve, that refuses to burn ...hmm, i'm not sure if the work on the cliche "heart on a sleeve" does enough to make it new
In the alcoholic dousing I’m all too happy to give it...considered dropping the "it", again a personal preference
I’m so full of wonderful obscenities
Words I never leant from you ..."leant" or "learnt"--just checking
When silence was your motto
To the things a young girl should know
About the big bad world out there ...an example would lend this more strength than stating "big bad world"
Fast forward this tape eleven years
Your smile still as tense as the avoidance in your gaze
Me still holding my head in defiance
Hiding behind a decade of bravado
And the silent promise that I’d never let you see me cry
Close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened…
And I’ll pretend I don’t know your secret
The one you’ve been hiding behind out of duty
To man you don’t even love
Still pretending the world is as it should be
To afraid to admit that men, should never have that power...comma not needed
So, just close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened…...the "so" did little for me. it would be possible to reiterate the line 2 stanzas above "close your eyes and (etc.)..." if you wanted.
early on, I felt that some lines repeated their ideas--I think I mentioned the ones I saw. I think it has gotten stronger as it progresses. I hope some of this is helpful.
Written only for you to consider.
Posts: 122
Threads: 13
Joined: Apr 2012
Thanks Philatone and Billy, very useful advice.
New edit up
"Poets are shameless with their experiences: they exploit them." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Posts: 5,057
Threads: 1,075
Joined: Dec 2009
(05-03-2012, 02:33 PM)Indie Wrote: V.4
Close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened…
One…
Two…
Three…
The expression on your face hasn’t changed
The echo of your words still fresh in my memory is 'in my memory' needed or is it a given?
A never ending slap much tighter start.
Cause I’m not the first girl i think it should be 'cause. or 'course with the apostrophe before the word.
That’s ever had a man manipulate his way
Past the button on her jeans to leave a bloody mess
Along with a whispered “hush”
Indentations of my teeth imprinted on my lips
And how proud you must be
That I’m such a bleeding disappointment
My heart pinned like a scarred badge
On my rhetorical sleeve, that refuses to drown
In the alcoholic dousing I’m happy to give it
I’m so full of wonderful obscenities
Words I never learnt from you
When silence was your motto
To the things a young girl should know
About the big bad world out there
Close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened…
And I’ll pretend I don’t know your secret
The one you’ve been hiding behind out of duty
To a man don't love
Still pretending nothing is wrong
Afraid to admit that men should never have that power
So, just close your eyes and we’ll pretend it never happened… just a couple of nits. i'd seriously step away from it for now. for a while any way, i think it's virtually there. it's good to see people workshopping their stuff.
thanks for the edit
billy
Posts: 122
Threads: 13
Joined: Apr 2012
I feel that memories needs to be there. Cause fixed to 'Cause, and the rest left as is. Agreed, I can always come back to this later. I like where I've gotten it for now.
"Poets are shameless with their experiences: they exploit them." - Friedrich Nietzsche
|
