Logos

[Todd]

The flavor you are trying to describe 

is found in the seeds of the pomegranate,
mixed with moonlight and tears. You will never 

forget this taste. I pity you,

everything will be less 

vibrant now.

If you had asked: How are we alike?
The stars would still be your blanket, 

the garden still soft beneath your feet. 



No, I would not have said love—that is not
the image you bear. The sword still spins
to protect this creation from your harsh love,
a love that would crush the Jay in its hands.
The blood sings from the ground to Me— 

not for vengeance—but in awe. 



Does that give you a clue?

What was light 
before I said it?
You too are a Namer. I would not
take that from you though
your tongue has turned black. 

You do more than define,

the thought gives birth to the word;
the word precedes the act. 

What was murder before you said it? 

You have continued to name 



Deceit, Fear, Shame

Each word conceives and confines.
You lack patience, and will not hear me.

My words will no longer thrive 

with your limited vocabulary.
I leave you one word behind 



Hope 



At the proper time you must shout it 

to the hills and look up.
You will find Me waiting there,
I never left. 

For I too am a Namer, 

and I AM patient.



____________________________
Edit: Leanne's Notes: Eliminated "It didn't exist before I said it", "you create", and smoothed out a namer line.
Edit 2: Billy's Note: Strive replaced by Thrive.
Edit 3: Aish's Note: Addressed the Namer repetition by eliminating the first instance.

(everything came on gradually or I would have done this as a revision)

[LaGitana]

Oh my God........... I am truly in awe, humbled.

I cannot begin to critique this, I am not able. I have read it over and over and can only find pieces of myself buried inside the depths grasping for the Hope resting just within the trailing ending.... It has long since been that a piece, NOT written for me, has brought me to my knees in tears....

I thank you Todd, and all of you, for your help with my writing, but I am so out of my element in giving any "help" with yours....

laGitana

[Leanne]

The mythos/logos dichotomy is one of my all-time favourite subjects to explore, and you've actually managed to weave them together in almost exactly the opposite direction to where I usually go, which is fascinating for me. The Speaker is very much a creator explaining to a rather dull but particularly favoured creation how the universe works, never seeming patronising but rather, just completely aware of how distinctly superior He is, and how limited the subject. Also, there is an underlying sadness that is very clearly drawn in the first strophe with "I pity you, everything will be less vibrant now". I actually felt sorry for the Speaker throughout, as He seems quite weary -- it can't be too fantastic being all-powerful and all-knowing when there's nothing left to discover. All that's left is to create critters and watch them do what He can't. And in the final strophe it's clear that He knows these creations will get themselves into trouble, thinking they know everything and forgetting that immense gulf between human and deity, so they're going to need someone to bail them out -- if only they're not too wrapped up in themselves to realise the "proper time".

So much to like here, Todd

The flavor you are trying to describe 

is found in the seeds 
of the pomegranate, -- brilliant opening lines, and using the pomegranate brings in the Persephone myth as well as Eden, not to mention that pomegranate seeds are easy to extract and count, but very ephemeral on the tongue
mixed with moonlight and tears. You will never 

forget this taste. I pity you,

everything will be less 

vibrant now.


If you had asked: 
How are we alike? -- feelings of inconsequence, and yet these are at odds with the very fact that the Speaker is addressing the subject
The stars would still be your blanket. 

The garden still soft beneath your feet. 



No, I would not have said love—that is not

the image you bear. The sword still spins
to protect this creation from your harsh love.
A love that would crush the Jay in its hands
The blood sings from the ground to Me— 

not for vengeance—but in awe. 

-- this strophe is excellent, but these two lines in particular are stunning

Does that give you a clue?

I am a Namer. What was light

before I said it?
You are also a Namer. I would not -- would you consider "you too are a Namer"?
take that from you though
your tongue has turned black. 

You do more than define—you create. -- this line is a bit over-telly for me.

The thought gives birth to the word;
the word precedes the act. 

What was murder before you said it? 

You have continued to name 



Deceit, Fear, 
Shame

Each word conceives and confines. -- for me, this line takes the poem deep into allegory and gives the poet God-like qualities, but I think that's just my megalomania talking
You lack patience, and will not hear me.

My words will no longer strive 

with your limited vocabulary. -- "strive with" seems slightly off to me, but I'm momentarily lost for alternatives.
I leave you one word behind. 



Hope 



It didn’t exist before I said it. -- this is possibly belabouring
At the proper time you must scream it 

to the hills and look up.
You will find Me waiting there,
I never left. 

For I too am a Namer, 

and I AM patient. -- I AM is a very fine touch

[Todd]

LaGitana: Thank you for reading and commenting. I am very happy that it inspired such a strong reaction. Its always cool when something you write impacts someone.

Thanks for letting me know

Very appreciated.

Leanne: thank you for your close read. I agree with you on the you too edit(much cleaner). I think the issues you had with the two other lines might both be a bit of unnecessary belaboring. I'll make some quick changes in an edit(not enough for a full rewrite).

Thank you for walking me through your read. It was very helpful.

Best to you both,

Todd

[billy]

after reading it a few times it feels like it's based on one of the gospels. as opposed to one of the greek uses. the poem seems to be about creation. and to some extent the tree of knowledge or man being in gods likeness in the fact we can name/create.

The flavor you are trying to describe 

is found in the seeds 
of the pomegranate,
mixed with moonlight and tears. You will never 

forget this taste. I pity you,

everything will be less 

vibrant now.does the reader assume innocence has been lost to the puupil/child/man? for me this verse chides choices made and is executed really well.


If you had asked: 
How are we alike? the comparison of man in gods image perhaps
The stars would still be your blanket. 

The garden still soft beneath your feet. 



No, I would not have said love—that is not

the image you bear. The sword still spins how we are unalike to god, and that he has might on his side
to protect this creation from your harsh love.
A love that would crush the Jay in its hands
The blood sings from the ground to Me— 
 excellent closing lines, i'm not sure if blood singing or ringing is cliché but i love the phrase here.
not for vengeance—but in awe. 



Does that give you a clue?

I am a Namer. What was light

before I said it?
You too are a Namer. I would not
take that from you though
your tongue has turned black. 
this feels like another reference to the tree, we now know how to lie, how to be cruel
You do more than define,

the thought gives birth to the word;
the word precedes the act. 

What was murder before you said it? 
another reference to the first family.
You have continued to name 

this is not a compliment, it feels more like an implied saddness.

Deceit, Fear, 
Shame

Each word conceives and confines.
You lack patience, and will not hear me.

My words will no longer strive 

with your limited vocabulary.
I leave you one word behind. 



Hope 



At the proper time you must scream it 

to the hills and look up.
You will find Me waiting there,
I never left. 

For I too am a Namer, 

and I AM patient.

good closing verse.

(added some quick edits based on Leanne's feedback, not enough for a revision)

i can't see anything i could say that would improve it.
the title will mislead many but thinking about it, isn't that what we do.
all of its lines are worth mentioning. for me this is very publishable, it has a solid set of images wrapped up in a message come creators advice and love.
it is quite powerful. the Namer, the I AM, the Me...work well in letting us know who it is, thinking about it; would the NAMER, and ME work better all in caps...at last, i found an effin nit

great poem todd, one of the best i've read. thanks for the reading of it.

[Todd]

Billy,

Thank you for the read and the comments. I'll give the capitalization some thought. Much appreciated.

Best,

Todd

[billy]

can you pm me if i got it or was i talking in riddles again

[Todd]

To Leanne's comment on strive the only possible replacement I can think of is abide.

My words will no longer abide
with your limited vocabulary.

I'll give it some thought.

[Leanne]

I quite like abide, it keeps the sonics intact but doesn't sound quite so sweaty

[Todd]

Well, I'll test drive it then.

[billy]

how about thrive
in the same line, is 'will' needed?

[Todd]

Billy,

Interesting possibility. I'll give it some thought.

Thank you,

Todd

[Leanne]

If I may weigh in? Just because I'm nosey

abide conveys a feeling of contempt, especially combined with will -- can not abide, in comparison, would imply that it's more or less out of the speaker's control, and given that he's kind of good at controlling things... there is also a secondary meaning to the word will that adds dimension here... and abide also, as in "Abide With Me".

strive implies competition, and I don't think the speaker really feels any great competitive threat from the subjects, which is why it seemed out of place to me initially.

And thrive, though a really interesting image with the garden/seedling overtones, also implies something that's not really in the speaker's control, viz "that sort of plant will not thrive in rocky soil".

"My words", for one who is The Word, is much the same as one of us saying "my body" -- so essentially, abide gives you "I cannot abide your petty attempts to copy me -- come and talk to me when you've realised your limitations".

Yes, I know, it's just one damn word!

[billy]

isn't to abide to accept, i will abide, i will accept
my words will no longer abide, my words do not accept. they are unable to tolerate.
metaphorically; my commandments will not tolerate your single mindedness

[Todd]

Okay, it was one damn word, but one damn word is important

Let me weigh in here:

Strive: Seems a bit out to me because of the fighting connotation and I agree that the speaker can't be fairly matched here (if this were a romulus and remus poem maybe but feels wrong here).

Abide: I sort of like this one because it does a few things. It's more versatle than strive. It has the connotations of not allowing, or not enduring, or not dwelling. It's also a cool biblical word from John 15 (which I hadn't thought of before this point). There's imagery of branches abiding in the vine and drawing nourishment from it. I like this quote which again I feel like a bit of bonehead for not thinking on already:

(paraphrase) If you abide in me and my words abide in you ask whatever you wish of me and it will be done for you.

Thrive: This is actually another entirely different twist. Though I think I will need to keep the will in to pull it off. Thrive would suggest that just as the humans cultivated the garden god planted seeds (words from the word) into them and this constant tending would no longer occur. The only seed left is hope (which is also a bit like pandora).

I think strive is out but that's my initial feel on the other words.

Thanks for the discussion

[billy]

Okay, it was one damn word, but one damn word is important

Let me weigh in here:

Strive: Seems a bit out to me because of the fighting connotation and I agree that the speaker can't be fairly matched here (if this were a romulus and remus poem maybe but feels wrong here).

Abide: I sort of like this one because it does a few things. It's more versatle than strive. It has the connotations of not allowing, or not enduring, or not dwelling. It's also a cool biblical word from John 15 (which I hadn't thought of before this point). There's imagery of branches abiding in the wine and drawing nourishment from it. I like this quote which again I feel like a bit of bonehead for not thinking on already:

(paraphrase) If you abide in me and my words abide in you ask whatever you wish of me and it will be done for you.

Thrive: This is actually another entirely different twist. Though I think I will need to keep the will in to pull it off. Thrive would suggest that just as the humans cultivated the garden god planted seeds (words from the word) into them and this constant tending would no longer occur. The only seed left is hope (which is also a bit like pandora).

I think strive is out but that's my initial feel on the other words.

Thanks for the discussion

tfu: fuck it Todd, use thrive...you know you want to

[Todd]

I'll let you know.

---

Okay, I reread my answer to you guys. Abide is the most biblically fitting, but thrive is the most interesting. I think I like interesting. I can tell by how I responded. I may change it back but Thrive by a nose.

[Aish]

The flavor you are trying to describe 

is found in the seeds 
of the pomegranate,
mixed with moonlight and tears. You will never 
 Gorgeous - you have attempted to describe an indescribeable taste. I would have included a scent as well, but that is neither here nor there. Moonlight as a taste complexity is genius.
forget this taste. I pity you,

everything will be less 

vibrant now. Decay begins slowly here. I really like the allusion.


If you had asked: 
How are we alike?
The stars would still be your blanket. 

The garden still soft beneath your feet. 



No, I would not have said love—that is not

the image you bear. The sword still spins I adore this small detail alluding to the angels and their flaming swords.
to protect this creation from your harsh love.
A love that would crush the Jay in its hands
The blood sings from the ground to Me— 

not for vengeance—but in awe. 



Does that give you a clue?

I am a Namer. What was light

before I said it?
You too are a Namer. I would not I am not keen on the multiple uses of "Namer".
take that from you though
your tongue has turned black. 
 Excellent detail.
You do more than define,

the thought gives birth to the word;
the word precedes the act. 

What was murder before you said it? 

You have continued to name 



Deceit, Fear, 
Shame

Each word conceives and confines. Truthful paradox.
You lack patience, and will not hear me.

My words will no longer thrive 

with your limited vocabulary. This is interesting. The creation theme is obvious, but to me this strophe stands out, especially when reading through to the end of the poem. Tradition teaches God used Hebrew to facilitate Creation - and English is quite limited in comparison to the nuances inherent in the Hebrew language. It also points to the vast difference between microcosm and macrocosm.

I leave you one word behind. 

Hope 



At the proper time you must scream it 

to the hills and look up.
You will find Me waiting there,
I never left. 

For I too am a Namer, 

and I AM patient. I fumbled here a bit, then recovered. El, Elohim, and El Shaddai are the names in Genesis associated with Creation. Eyah Asher Ayah "I Am That I Am" only appears at the burning bush. It ties in to the prophetic leap forward this strophe makes.




(added some quick edits based on Leanne's feedback, not enough for a revision)

Thank you for the mind candy.

[Todd]

Thanks for the feedback and the close read Aish. I've thought about that repetition of Namer as I've read through this. It's possible to kill the first instance I think because the language of the second implies the first lets see how that looks.

Much appreciated,

Todd