Teaching of homosexuality!

[billy]

a pretty contentious subject,

the question is; at what age should schools begin discussing sexuality in all the major forms? I.E. same gender male, female, hetero.

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Tennessee Senate Approves Ban On Discussing Homosexuality

NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- A bill passed Friday by the Tennessee Senate would forbid public school teachers and students in grades kindergarten through eight from discussing the fact that some people are gay.

Opponents deride the measure as the "don't say gay bill." They say it's unfair to the children of gay parents and could lead to more bullying. Supporters say it is intended to give teachers clear guidance for dealing with younger children on a potentially explosive topic.

Source:

[heslopian]

I started sex education in year five and frankly was bemused by it. I don't see it as a moral issue but an issue of common sense. What do primary school kids care about intercourse and love? In my opinion the ideal time for such lessons to be taught is around the start of high school, as puberty is setting in. I think it's reckless of schools not to teach about gay alongside heterosexual sex. I was terrified of my sexuality for a period in my adolescence because of my ignorance about it. All I knew was vague horror stories about AIDs and my father equating it with perversion. It would have been nice if someone had explained to me that gay sex doesn't always end in painful, humiliating death.
Also, I think the problem is not just with what age but how sex education should be taught. When I was in high school they gave us wordsearches with words like "penis" and "vagina" hidden in the puzzle. What that was supposed to accomplish I have no idea.

[Leanne]

You're lucky you're gay... for most men, the g-spot remains hidden in the puzzle...

Making it an issue whether being gay is discussed or not discussed simply ensures that it WILL be discussed, but will always remain "other" than the usual -- you can't really force anyone to talk about it if they're not the right people to inform kids, but there absolutely must be someone who kids can go to if they need it. Just not talking about it won't make it go away, that's like covering your eyes so nobody can see you. (Not that I'm advocating "making it go away", by the way!)

I do wish someone would suggest passing a law that bans the god-botherers from imposing their repressions on the rest of the world.

[billy]

i think teachers should be there at any time of the kids school years and available for a one one on one should the child ask for it.
if and when they teach sex education, it should be more or less complete. i think the main thing to sort out is at what age cildren should start being taught sex education (including the part that applies about being homosexual)

[addy]

I don't think acknowledging and discussing with kids the fact that some people are gay counts as "sex education"... unless you count every princess movie and straight love story kids have ever been exposed to as sex education. I think homosexuality could be discussed at a relatively comparable pace... don't get into the nitty-gritty details, but don't erase it.

[billy]

i think once sex education is being taught, it should be made clear that gay related questions can be asked and answered.
after all, shouldn't gay kids learn how to save themselves from aids and and other sexual transmitted disease by the use of condoms as heterosexuals are?

[addy]

Yes, sex education going beyond topics of "straight" sex is very important, not only because kids deserve proper education about their orientation (and not be forced into risky situations because they didn't know any better), but also because this sends a message . What kills me is the idea that the existence of homosexuals is not an age-appropriate topic... for middle schoolers? Really?? So the subtext is that homosexuality is automatically too "mature" and "repulsive" to discuss even in the context of education... yeah, way to shame the gay kids.

[billy]

yes but that brings up the question of 'what age does a kid know they're gay' an to some extent when sex education should be taught.
the down side would of course be the strict catholic teachers who think being gay is being evil. how does the education system get round religious belief; and god forbid it's a catholic school run by nuns

[heslopian]

I don't think schools should be run the state and church have no role in education, but that's a whole other debate. I can't speak for everyone but I knew I was gay around thirteen. You come to realise it in the same way straights come to realise their sexuality.

[billy]

then i knew i was straight at 7 or 8
personally i think the state should run schools, unless of course you want a private school system.
back on topic. you knew at 13, i would presume some knew sooner. if i had to pick an arbitrary age at which sex ed should be taught, it would be 10 or 11. that said schools should make someone available should a pupil feel the need t discuss something personal.

[heslopian]

You knew at 7 or 8? Flamin' Nora... Either you were an early bloomer or I was incredibly late. 11 sounds like a reasonable age to be taught about the birds and the bees. I agree about having someone available for students to talk to discreetly. When I was in high school a lot of kids would discuss it with the drama teacher because she was the only one they felt they could trust.

[addy]

I agree completely. By ten or eleven kids should have someone they can talk to for personal reasons and for their own education... and they should be able to do it openly, without having to feel hunted or ashamed. Most adults feel uncomfortable discussing the birds and the bees with straight kids, but they bite the bullet because it's the responsible thing to do. Same should apply to gay kids at that delicate stage, where self-hate could easily set in (puberty is rough) if they don't have any figures of authority they could ask or confide in without fear. This law was made to protect the sensibilities of bigoted adults, not kids.

[billy]

what happens when parents opt their kids out of sex-ed. i know they're allowed to in some countries.

[addy]

Oi, that's another can of worms. So you're saying parents won't let their kids learn sex-ed if the curriculum includes mention of icky homosexuals? That scenario is frustrating and unfortunate, but the alternative is disenfranchising innocent kids, and for such an unfair reason.

[billy]

i think many would want to opt out.
their excuse being; i'll teach my kids about it, invariably they don't.
parents it seems in many ways don't actually care what their kids think.

[Aish]

To me, it's all a matter for the parents. Kids should be taught about the world, about sex and varying orientations - BUT, not everyone will have the same outlooks or time frames. I was personally offended when California started teaching sex in second grade, telling the kids different ways to enjoy sex. We're talking about 8 year olds. To me that's inappropriate. Truthfully, I don't even think sex ed should be taught in schools, and I don't think schools should be passing out contraception either. No, I'm not a religious nut. Parents are expecting the school systems to raise children, shirking responsibility, and then people wonder why most kids these days have no clue. About anything.

[addy]

Eight years old??!!! Dear lord, that's going overboard.

I agree that parents should be the ones educating their children about it... but for that one kid whose parents are conservative nutjobs who would beat her for daring to ask anything about her sexuality, it helps to maybe have a teacher or counselor they could talk to.

[critical mass]

I'm also for removing sex ed from schools. Teachers have enough on their plate as it. I have no suggestion on an alternative method. Wite the internet and such, I don't think there is really a need for it.


My sex convesration with my oldest son was.

It's OK to play with that thing, just don't do it in the pool.


David

[abu nuwas]

I am not sure that is any business of the schools of whatever stripe they be. But Heslopian's first comment, about the pointlessness of teaching kids when the are too young I am complete agreement with. It is as interesting to an 8 year-old as would be a description of the cardio-vascular system: it's just meaningless.

At an older age than that, my eldest son did get some birds and bees lessons. They went on to rabbits, and so on. When he arrived home, we talked about it, and plainly, it had not grabbed and kept his attention, since he held the view, that a woman giving birth was as likely to produce a litter of rabbits as anything! Later, jokes about boys or people being gay abounded, and I realised that he (and quite possibly his mates) had got things, so to speak, arse about face. I delivered a very blunt explanation of the 'facts of life', rather skipping the bit about the navigational problems, but, as I recall, using my forefinger to go from a bent position, to the straight one, and bunging it into a notional hole. Once i was sure he had the general picture, I was able to say that some men preferred other men, and in that case, it was an arse thing. He was genuinely relieved, and went off to play footie.

[billy]

i never spoke to my kids about homosexuality as such. (though we've discussed it many times as adults with me ending such conversations when i got bored with; you're fuckin lesbians aren't you to which they'd both reply yes. (jesting about it wasn't a problem)) nor did i expect a teacher to. i would have expected a teacher to answer fairly if they had asked. i'm not sure teachers have enough on their plate seeing as it's fitted into the curriculum. at 8 i'd say it's close to the age of inquiring minds. i was heterosexually ripping the head off my cock at that age, (metaphorically speaking of course) to imaginings of raquel whelsh and miss bennet ( an english teacher, or anyone else who had large jugs) i was certainly sexually aware at that early age and full of stupid knowledge learned in the playground, about girls private parts and how many holes they had, one estimate was four. which to an 8 year old was believable. imagine my fantasies as to which and how many of said holes i should use. even at eight i was aware that some men were different. all women and girls could be banged but something about certain boys said wtf. i never remember it coming up in class but sometimes we'd speak about it as kids and pretend to squirm and wriggle when we voiced our fears. even at 8 we were macho men hehe. so i'd say start at 10/11 but be aware of early starters, of kids who seem more withdrawn than usual.