Creating a soul

[addy]

In the future we anticipate we'll have technology advanced enough that we can create full human clones (not just organs but full ones) as well as artificial intelligence in the form of computers and robots. Surely, there will come a time when clones and AI, even though they are artificially created, will have enough intelligence and self-awareness that they may be considered to have a soul.

Is it okay for us to make such creatures? Personally, I think it's okay only if we are ready to award them with the same rights and autonomy awarded to the rest of mankind, and not just limit them to being servile commodities.

[billy]

i think it will come eventually but it's a bit scary. if AI's become intelligent enough to get a soul (whatever that is) then we must assume they will also become autonomous, even if still under out command. (slaves) which mean we won't be race pitied against race when the ensuing battle for freedom begins, but species against species. personally i can't see a machine having a soul...i personally don't think we have a soul. (not something that lives forever anyway)

[srijantje]

what's a soul?

[billy]

By definition, a machine can not have a soul.
New souls are created the old fashioned way, known as sex.

who said? we could be classed as machines? you put energy in, we work, no energy, we stop. all our movements are based on mechanics. the only thing that may not be is our brains and thats not a certainty.

i'm pretty certain that machines in the future will be able to procreate. specially nano bots etc.

i think sj has it right asking "what is a soul" it's hard to say a machine could or could not have one if we can't define it and i mean in a measurable/tangible way.

[srijantje]

in the end the difference between us and machines is ,we run on chemical processes and and they on electrical impulses

[addy]

Yeah, come to think of it SJ is right... what is a soul, or what counts as one? Assuming, as Billy said that we don't have "souls" (meaning a ghost or consciousness that lives on after our physical body dies), we certainly have a certain form of sentience... if it's just chemical processes, how is that so different from electrical ones?

[srijantje]

not much difference,but as far as we know machines are not yet "sentient",whatever that means

[billy]

sentience isn't connected to whether we have a soul or not.

the rules of sentience go something like;
Sentience is the ability to feel, or perceive, or be conscious, or have subjective experiences. 18th century philosophers used the term to distinguish the ability to think ("reason") from the ability to feel ("sentience"). In modern western philosophy, sentience is the ability to have sensations or experiences with a subjective quality known as "qualia". For Eastern philosophy, sentience is a metaphysical quality of all things that requires respect and care. The term is central to the philosophy of animal rights, because sentience implies the ability to suffer, which entails certain rights. (sourced from wiki)
sapience is also used to describe our ability to feel and interact independently with the world in a subjective way.

a soul is a different matter, it's more of a spiritual essence, some carpenter can (allegedly) see the soul in a piece of wood.
some sculptors see it in a piece of marble and the same is said for diamond cutters.
also the soul is viewed in many ways depending on which religion you follow. mainly it's seen as the spiritual essence of a person.

do dogs and cats have souls, they are certainly sentient beings? so are slugs etc. i'm pretty sure they can build a robot that's as sentient as a slug

[addy]

Point taken.

Well, even though we can't give computers a soul yet, we can apparently drive them crazy

"Scientists Create Computer With Schizophrenia"

[addy]

*Sigh*, perhaps using the word "soul was misguided ...

So a slightly different question: you think computers could one day be intelligent enough to experience thought and emotion at the same level humans do? Or are emotions impossible for machines (taking note of the fact that other than electrical impulses, synapses, and some hormones, we have little idea where human emotion comes from either)

[billy]

i read the Schizophrenia article and while interesting they did only manage in simulating the effects.

again i don't think we need intelligence to experience thought or emotion, at least not a lot of it. i think machines will one day be intelligent enough one day to feel as we do, though i think it will depend on whether or not we survive the next 100 years or so.
the reason i say this is because we only use a small portion of the brain (as far as we know) computers therefore would in theory only have to be a tenth as cognisant as we are to feel what we feel. okay i may not have it right but something along those lines.
i think cognisance is what we're talking about here and as such yes, i think in the future machines may have it.

[mrmod]

So do you mean a soul or a mind? Are they interchangeable?

You can give a computer thoughts, but can you give them emotions? Will emotions eventually evolve from thoughts?

Difficult questions.

[billy]

i think she's saying the the question should have been about cognisance and not the soul.

maybe there will come a point where an accumulated knowledge may one day lead to
an emotionally based decision as opposed to a mechanical based decision occurring in a machine/computer brain.