The Empty Cave (Revision)

[Todd]

Revision 3

It is not the dark,
the slick wet,
the cold chain,
the pictures
on the wall.

It is not the game,
face-fixed, calling out:
horse, pig, soldier--in flickers
like a fever 


dream. It is not
the echo,
the lisp from the fire,
but life that passes
from behind—a life
of outlines.

It is the scream of the eyes
beyond the mouth.
It is the horse. 
Yes! The horse, then the release

and the return
beneath the dividing line,
the separation,
shadows coalescing,
to know and be fully known.
~~~


Revision 2
It is not the dark,
the slick wet,
the cold chain,
the pictures
on the wall.

It is not the game,
face-fixed, calling out:
horse, pig, soldier--in flickers
like a fever dream.



It is not the echo,
the lisp from the fire,
but life that passes
from behind—a life
of outlines.



How long have we sat?

It is the scream of the eyes
beyond the mouth
It is the horse.
Yes! The horse, then the release

and the return
beneath the dividing line,
the separation,
shadows coalescing,
to know and be fully known.

~~~


Revision

It is not the dark,
the slick wet,
the cold chain,
the picture
on the wall.



It is not the game,
face-fixed, calling out:
horse, pig, soldier--a flicker,
like a fever dream.



It is not the echo,
the lisp from the fire.
It is life that passes
from behind, a life
of outlines.



How long have we sat?

It is the scream of the eyes
beyond the mouth,
the release and the return
beneath the dividing line,



the separation,
shadows coalescing,
to know and be fully known.

~~~

Original
It is not the dark,
the slick wet,
the cold chain,
the pictures
on the wall.

It is not the game,
face-fixed, calling out:
horse, pig, soldier flickering,
like a fever dream.



It is not the echo,
the lisp from the fire.
It is life that passes
from behind, a life
of outlines.



How long have we sat?



It is the scream of the eyes
beyond the mouth
It is the horse?
Yes, it is the horse.
That is the horse!



It is the release and the return
beneath the dividing line,
the separation,
shadows coalescing,
to know and be fully known.

~~~

[billy]

i was going to come back to this one.

i've read and re read it and have some thoughts as to the content.
it feels like an intent to get through to someone, a child maybe.
the horse has me puzzled and all i can think of is the horse being the only thing
that lights a spark in someone's eyes. that makes both sides aware of something
happening. the poem itself has a depth which entices the reader to want to take
part in some lesson. the reader (me)struggles but non the less is compelled to
take part or be a part of what's going on within the poem.

sometimes a poem works by leaving the reader to wonder if they got the intent of the writer.
this is one of them. as the reader i don't want to know if i'm correct i just want to think i am, does that make any sense.

some good images and for me a well written piece of poetry.
thanks for the read todd.

[Todd]

Thanks Billy. I do know what you mean. So, I won't tell you if you're correct. Your thought process though is in step with what the poem is getting at. The trick to understanding the context is in the title. I appreciate your comments.

Best,

Todd

[heslopian]

For some reason this reminds me of Edgar Allen Poe. Probably the strange narrative and slow build up of dread. Thanks for the read, Todd; I'll take great pleasure in chewing over this piece. One quibble: should "It is the horse?" really be a question, and if so, shouldn't it read "Is it the horse?"

[Todd]

Hi Jack,

Poe now that's an interesting comparison. Your option on the horse question may be better I'll give it some thought. I'm trying to make it read like they are showing some certainty and than questioning themselves.

Spoiler

So, this is Plato's Allegory of the Cave. People are walking behind the chained people who see the shadowed representation of an object cast by the fire. They eventually are free, blinded by the Sun (following Plato's story here) and begin to see the world as it truly is. Instead of seeing the shadow they see the actual thing so it moves from questioning to certainty. All that said, yeah I might be getting too cute with the punctuation and syntax. I'll think it through.

http://faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/cave.htm

Thank you again,

Todd

[Lawrence]

To be honest with you, I agree with Billy.

I loved this poem and its smooth language, its mystery and pull.
When I found out what it was, though, I lost much of this.
I only stumbled on one line:

"It is the horse?
Yes, it is the horse.
That is the horse!"

---

Otherwise, good work.

[Todd]

Thanks Lawrence. I'll look at the horse lines. I think you and Billy are on to something (which I've always believed) explain a poem and you lose something.

Appreciate the comments.

[Lawrence]

(By line I mean section)
Sorry, I'm a little hasty.

[Todd]

I got it: I read it as (maybe reconsider the horse lines).

Thanks

[billy]

Thanks Lawrence. I'll look at the horse lines. I think you and Billy are on to something (which I've always believed) explain a poem and you lose something.

Appreciate the comments.

i think the reason for the phenomenon is the fact we all take something different from a poem. if it's explained and we get it wrong then it' like the poet has taken that 'something' we received from the poem, back.

i think it shows how different we see things in the analysis thread here.
while i got the think wrong what i felt worked for me.

addy i felt did a good analysis and came up with something different.
lawrence also, the thing was; what we took from the piece when we analysed it was our own truth (i think)

it's one of the reasons i'm not keen on footnotes etc, it's like the author is stealing something from me before i even start the read.

[Todd]

I did a rewrite (almost all I'm doing these days). If you've seen the movie Adaptation there's a scene where a character explains how he used to be into tropical fish and then he had this epiphany:

John Laroche: Then one morning, I woke up and said, "Fuck fish." I renounce fish, I will never set foot in that ocean again. And there hasn't been a time where I have stuck so much as a toe back in that ocean.

Susan Orlean: But why?

John Laroche: Done with fish.

So, I made some changes but considered the comments and said Fuck Horse. It wasn't worth keeping.

Best,

Todd

[billy]

first off comments on the edit:
edit;
It is the scream of the eyes
beyond the mouth,
the release and the return
beneath the dividing line,
it feels less than the original without the horse line. i am profusely sorry to say that the original is better (for me)

the separation,
shadows coalescing,
to know and be fully known.
i prefer the edited rearrangement of the last and the penultimate verse. feels much sharper

---

original;
It is the scream of the eyes
beyond the mouth
It is the horse?
Yes, it is the horse.
That is the horse!

It is the release and the return
beneath the dividing line,
the separation,
shadows coalescing,
to know and be fully known.

---

the reason for my 1st comment.
i think i get it. the reasoning of the horse being important. it came to me like a epiphany (i think i used that word once before)
and as usual it's in the effin title (this is why titles are often integral to the poem)
we the reader are looking back in time, the horse is a cave painting and the writer is describing the emotion of how what he sees affects him, in effect he transports us back.

the writer is inside the time when the cave was alive and with one line of ambiguity could be asking;

what have we done/when will we do something, we're waiting for you to become the artist for your own horse.

seriously todd it's like a revelation. i see what you meant, what the picture of the horse was. it's the picture on the cave wall we always remember. of course i probably got it all wrong and received some other persons revelation but that's all good. i got something great from it and it's all that matters. please keep the horse (jmo)

[Todd]

So, in your opinion: No Fuck Horse?

Let me think about it.

Thanks Billy.

[Todd]

Hell after that Billy how could I not give you back the horse? I gave you a few other changes though. Not quite the same. Trying to address what are probably some issue with the lines.

[billy]

the other changes, primarily the verse merge works well.
i don't normally have need to know if i got the gist of a poem but did i? it's okay if i didn't because i got something from it that was worthwhile anyway

[Todd]

I don't mean to be cryptic but in some ways yes you got a sense of the poem. There is another way of looking at it but it doesn't invalidate your take at all. I'm a firm believer though that once you put something out there you lose the right to say BUT THIS WAS MY INTENT. Your intent is what they take away. That moves to the reader. Just my opinion.

So, is your take the full picture no, is that an issue no. Is your take still pretty right on in some key areas yeah.

Cryptic poems can be fun like that.

[billy]

thanks for the almost affirmation hehe.