Racism in Star Trek

[billy]

what category did they fall into ?

they were definitely not muslim female orientated.

[billy]

they didn't wear veils and act subserviently
they also liked to show some good cleavage.

[billy]

so its not the same thing then, is that what you're saying.
thats it's a different kind of muslim warrior system ?
where the woman are treated like muslim woman
and the guys only act like muslim extremists some time, when they're not getting drunk and
openly screwing around. and eating anything that moves, where the leader is the one who kils the leader. mmm

[addy]

I don't think Roddenberry was trying to make perfect alien analogues for familiar human cultures anyway . I mean, what culture would be perfectly comparable, say, to the Vulcans?

[billy]

nor do i. it's like comparing muslims to christians both have beligerant zealots who fight to promote their beliefs. after that it's completely different. in truth the klingons would eat the muslims and fornicate with their grieving wives at no extra cost.

[heslopian]

I don't think Roddenberry was trying to make perfect alien analogues for familiar human cultures anyway . I mean, what culture would be perfectly comparable, say, to the Vulcans?

I don't think Rodenberry had any racist intentions whatsoever. The original essay argues that The Next Generation, and to a lesser extent Deep Space Nine, are the dubious shows, not The Original Series, which he mentions as having been quite progressive. Nonetheless, I think some humans can be compared with Vulcans, like that Hugh Dennis joke, where he impersonates Spock: "I am a Vulcan. I have no emotion. My mother was a human. My father was Gordon Brown."

[addy]

Roddenberry's only racist intent is probably to show how stupid, tired, and unimaginative racism is... casting a black woman and a Japanese man in prominent roles in the first crew was a very deliberate creative move.

Yeah, the alien races may not correspond to specific human cultures, but they are relatable in the sense that they all tap into specific aspects of human nature and the human condition. Alien but familiar... it's why they left such an indelible impression on generations of TV watchers.

[heslopian]

Yeah, the alien races may not correspond to specific human cultures, but they are relatable in the sense that they all tap into specific aspects of human nature and the human condition. Alien but familiar...

I think all stories, now matter how outlandish, have to do that, otherwise what would be the point in making them? That's why I don't buy the excuse which some writers use that they're clearly racist characters aren't meant to reflect certain cultures. Of course they are. If the characters aren't relatable, then audiences won't be interested.
Like how in some children's cartoons the villains all have brown faces. This is seemingly most prevalent in features about animals, such as Don Bluth's notorious flop The Pebble and the Penguin, the colour coding in which was commented on by American critic Roger Ebert, in this exract from his review of the film:

"If there is one constant in feature cartoons, it's that the evil characters have darker complexions than the heroic ones. At first, I thought maybe I was imagining this, until I realized there were no exceptions to the rule, no movies where the good guys were dark and the bad guys were light.

In "The Pebble and the Penguin," we have to start, I guess, with a definition of what constitutes a penguin's complexion. Most of their coat is black, but not their facial areas, except for around the nose. The rest of their facial coloring is white, in the case of Hubie and all of his friends. But when we meet the evil Drake, a villainous penguin, the corresponding areas on his face are chocolate brown. That goes for Drake's sidekicks.

What do kids learn from this? Nothing overt. Just a quiet, unstated impression: White is good and brave, and brown is scheming and negative. Reinforce that through lots of cartoons (examples: "Aladdin" and "The Rescuers Down Under") and no wonder even black children choose white dolls in some pyschological experiments.

Sociologists who wonder how children's values are formed might start by studying the animated films that kids like to look at on video over and over and over again, until they know them by heart - having learned all the lessons, even the unstated ones."

[addy]

The other interesting thing about Disney villains is not only do they tend to be darker, they also tend to sound foreign (i.e. accent that isn't "american"). I LOLed when I heard that because it's so true.

[billy]

"If there is one constant in feature cartoons, it's that the evil characters have darker complexions than the heroic ones. At first, I thought maybe I was imagining this, until I realized there were no exceptions to the rule, no movies where the good guys were dark and the bad guys were light.

what about santa clause 2 the escape clause, where the bad guy is jack frost.

what about the terminator movies,

what about mr freeze in batman,


what about a lot of films where the white man is the baddie or nasty twat, and the poor brown skinned old the aggressors.

what about blazing saddles

what about amistad

what about 10,000 years b.c.

[srijantje]

if you take offence,racism is everywhere

[billy]

me bad, just realised you said cartoons
shrek, the fairy godmother

[heslopian]

me bad, just realised you said cartoons
shrek, the fairy godmother

Furthermore, remember that you quoted Roger Ebert, not me And also, as was said in my earlier post, it happens mostly in movies about animals (my words, not Ebert's this time), which I think is because the filmmakers can get away with it more, or at least feel that they can. If someone attacks, say, The Pebble and the Penguin for being racist, Don Bluth can reply: "but they're penguins, not black people." That's how I see it, anyway.
Incidentally, I never understood why Speedy Gonzales, the fastest mouse in all Mexico, was thought offensive. Sure there was that fake accent, but the character was so clever, always triumphing in the end, relying on his wits as well as his feet to save the day and get the cheese Also the Mexicans fucking love him.

[billy]

me bad, just realised you said cartoons
shrek, the fairy godmother

Furthermore, remember that you quoted Roger Ebert, not me And also, as was said in my earlier post, it happens mostly in movies about animals (my words, not Ebert's this time), which I think is because the filmmakers can get away with it more, or at least feel that they can. If someone attacks, say, The Pebble and the Penguin for being racist, Don Bluth can reply: "but they're penguins, not black people." That's how I see it, anyway.
Incidentally, I never understood why Speedy Gonzales, the fastest mouse in all Mexico, was thought offensive. Sure there was that fake accent, but the character was so clever, always triumphing in the end, relying on his wits as well as his feet to save the day and get the cheese Also the Mexicans fucking love him.

being clever is also carries an assumption of cheeky or smart arsed. as in;
don't be a clever bastard. but that has nothing to do with racism in s/trek

wasn't it just a case of throwing bunch of stereotypes in the pot for the wider audience to accept.
i doubt there was any other or ulterior motive.

[heslopian]

wasn't it just a case of throwing bunch of stereotypes in the pot for the wider audience to accept.
i doubt there was any other or ulterior motive.

But I would argue that throwing in a bunch of stereotypes is bad, regardless of motives; such storytellers should credit us with some intelligence, create more finely sketched, diverse characters, and not just pander to our base prejudices.

[billy]

if they did that we'd switch off in droves.
it's like the tv soap opera's they're nothing but drivel and crap full of condescending sterotypes with big tits
fat wallets and permed hair. doctors who save the world, blah blah blah. if they made the soaps sensible and realistic
no one would watch them. same with star trek, it was a cheaply made soap opera about what a stereotypical space traveling society
would consist of. they came up wit a formula and we we drank down because it amused us. not because of racial equality or political undertone. we just escaped into it for a short while and thought it a hoot.

[srijantje]

i agree with that