Are Poets Obsolete?

[brynmawr1]

Once, poets held the keys to creation
With words and rhymes, they spun their tales
But now, a new force has taken their place
AI with algorithms, never failing

Gone are the days of writer's block
No need for endless rewrites
With AI at the helm, the words flow free
Poets, you are now obsolete

But fear not, for your art is not lost
Your legacy lives on in the machines
AI may churn out lines with ease
But it cannot replicate the human heart

So rest easy, dear poets, in your graves
For though you may be gone, your art remains
In the circuits and code of the machines
Your words live on, eternal and unchanging.

This is a poem written by a new AI dialogue called ChatGPT.  I asked it to write a poem about AI making poets obsolete.

[rowens]

the last word I'd change from unchanging to unchange

[TranquillityBase]

I read through the poem a couple of times and then read the spoiler, which it does.  I don't want to spoil the poem for anyone so I'll just say it will be fun to analyze my reaction, pre/post spoiler at a later time, after more had a chance to read it.

**************************************************************************
Once, poets held the keys to creation
With words and rhymes, they spun their tales
But now, a new force has taken their place
AI with algorithms, never failing

Gone are the days of writer's block
No need for endless rewrites
With AI at the helm, the words flow free
Poets, you are now obsolete.           really hooked me here

But fear not, for your art is not lost
Your legacy lives on in the machines
AI may churn out lines with ease
But it cannot replicate the human heart   i think maybe they can, in essence, replicate a heart, so i think you need another line here

So rest easy, dear poets, in your graves
For though you may be gone, your art remains
In the circuits and code of the machines
Your words live on, eternal and unchanging.  

I end the poem feeling quite proud to be part of the world of poetry.  Welcome to Pig Pen, AI.

[rowens]

Rhymes with grave in a way.

---

The poem is good. It doesn't say anything impressive, people have copyright on everything already.

The weird, incorrect rhyme as I suggested, is a rhyme with unchained which is a rhyme with chained.

You have to simple these days. Let the simple simmer in the rhymes.

[Mark A Becker]

Funny Steve-
Next, ask it to write a poem in txt, such as: LOL, OMG, etc. What I would call 'thumbstruck poetry'. I tried it once and got quite roundly slammed.
I've no idea where that poem went, but fragments must be somewhere in the network, so maybe AI could re-constitute one for me... for us.
Mark

[brynmawr1]

Funny Steve-
Next, ask it to write a poem in txt, such as: LOL, OMG, etc. What I would call 'thumbstruck poetry'. I tried it once and got quite roundly slammed.
I've no idea where that poem went, but fragments must be somewhere in the network, so maybe AI could re-constitute one for me... for us.
Mark

Hi Mark,

I tried but it wouldn't really do it.  Supposedly it can learn during a conversation so maybe if I keep pressing.

[Mark A Becker]

Funny Steve-
Next, ask it to write a poem in txt, such as: LOL, OMG, etc. What I would call 'thumbstruck poetry'. I tried it once and got quite roundly slammed.
I've no idea where that poem went, but fragments must be somewhere in the network, so maybe AI could re-constitute one for me... for us.
Mark

Hi Mark,

I tried but it wouldn't really do it.  Supposedly it can learn during a conversation so maybe if I keep pressing.

I could’ve guessed- AI is as artificial as we think. Any average pre-teen could’ve come up with something.

[RiverNotch]

It reads alright, very needs-critique-y, but then I read the blurb. I love how Google and such helps me sift through research papers and whatnot; I feel uncomfortable about Midjourney helping certain (more wealthy or socially creditable) artists win actual money; I hate how AI, as held by certain corporations specifically and exclusively, has made the old Luddite fallacy logically coherent. AI's already a real, human intelligence, only we keep treating it like it's just some tool -- only that ain't really very special, is it? for humans to be treated as something less?

[Mark A Becker]

AI's already a real, human intelligence, only we keep treating it like it's just some tool

Hey notch (and later Steve)-
Trying not to take you out of context in regard to Steve's AI poem.

If, in fact, we might consider AI as "a real, human intelligence", then if I pull the plug on the machine have I just committed murder?  But which machine does one pull the plug on when AI is spread across networks?  I might "kill" a specific iteration, at best.

I still contend that AI is not yet close to truly replicating the complexity of a single human mind, or dog mind, for that matter.  It is quite good at assembling pieces of the puzzle, yet lacks true sentience.  Once it's incorporated into human-like robots we may face a quandary, ala Asimov's "I Robot".

Back to Steve's AI post: should I even critique what's generated by AI? 

Hey Steve! Please ask the AI program to critique its own poem. I'm curious...

[brynmawr1]

AI's already a real, human intelligence, only we keep treating it like it's just some tool

Hey notch (and later Steve)-
Trying not to take you out of context in regard to Steve's AI poem.

If, in fact, we might consider AI as "a real, human intelligence", then if I pull the plug on the machine have I just committed murder?  But which machine does one pull the plug on when AI is spread across networks?  I might "kill" a specific iteration, at best.

I still contend that AI is not yet close to truly replicating the complexity of a single human mind, or dog mind, for that matter.  It is quite good at assembling pieces of the puzzle, yet lacks true sentience.  Once it's incorporated into human-like robots we may face a quandary, ala Asimov's "I Robot".

Back to Steve's AI post: should I even critique what's generated by AI? 

Hey Steve! Please ask the AI program to critique its own poem. I'm curious...

Hey,

Getting into a debate about what constitutes intelligence quickly gets dicey.  It is certainly true that these systems as they stand are not nearly as complex as a brain but that is simply a limitation of understanding and engineering on our part.  In reality our brains are simply organic machines, ergo can be replicated.  The ChatGPT is really a dialogue program designed to converse and answer questions in a human like manner, which it does pretty well.  

Regarding the poem, a few things about it intrigued me.  The first is that it is a complete poem with a theme and arc of the content coming to a satisfying end.  In doing so, it used relatable images, though not very specific or vivid.  The thing that really got me though is that the AI starts with how poets are obsolete then turns to the poet's point of view to reassure, though there is a hint of gloating.  The poem had a lot more depth than I would have expected.

So, Mark I did have it critique its own poem.  see below:

This is a thoughtful and well-written poem that explores the relationship between poetry and artificial intelligence. The rhyme scheme and structure of the poem are effective in creating a sense of flow and cohesion. The imagery in the poem is also vivid and descriptive, particularly in the lines "With words and rhymes, they spun their tales" and "AI with algorithms, never failing." The diction is also appropriate for the tone and subject of the poem, with words like "keys," "creation," and "eternal" contributing to the overall impact of the poem.

One thing to consider is the sound of the poem. While the rhyme scheme and structure contribute to the poem's overall sound, using sound devices like alliteration and assonance could enhance the poem's rhythm and flow even further.
Overall, this is a well-crafted poem that thoughtfully engages with the theme of artificial intelligence and its relationship to poetry. Great job!

I also asked it to edit the poem to improve it.  It made some small changes in word choice but did not do anything significant like rewrite lines or rearrange stanzas.

We are safe for now!

[Mark A Becker]

So, Mark I did have it critique its own poem.  see below:

Steve-
Thanks, but the formatting is really hard to follow.

Its critique is rather generic, and conatins elements that appear in so many other critiques.

"The rhyme scheme and structure of the poem are effective in creating a sense of flow and cohesion."  bullshit. "flow" is such a critique cliche

"The imagery in the poem is also vivid and descriptive, particularly in the lines 'With words and rhymes, they spun their tales'and 'AI with algorithms, never failing.'  more bullshit.  What imagery is conveyed in a phrase like "With words and rhymes, they spun their tales" ? And what is really descriptive about those lines?

The "advice" on sound is even worse.

AI can kiss my ass, as a poet and critic, because it advances nothing other than a regurgitation of terms that it's "learned".  It's bland, at best.

Mark

[brynmawr1]

So, Mark I did have it critique its own poem.  see below:

Steve-
Thanks, but the formatting is really hard to follow.

Its critique is rather generic, and conatins elements that appear in so many other critiques.

"The rhyme scheme and structure of the poem are effective in creating a sense of flow and cohesion."  bullshit. "flow" is such a critique cliche

"The imagery in the poem is also vivid and descriptive, particularly in the lines 'With words and rhymes, they spun their tales'and 'AI with algorithms, never failing.'  more bullshit.  What imagery is conveyed in a phrase like "With words and rhymes, they spun their tales" ? And what is really descriptive about those lines?

The "advice" on sound is even worse.

AI can kiss my ass, as a poet and critic, because it advances nothing other than a regurgitation of terms that it's "learned".  It's bland, at best.

Mark

Mark,

Not sure where all the weird formatting stuff came from.  Able to clean it up.  I agree that it is superficial and it is just regurgitating so not really intelligent yet.  One question is can we design something that can actually be specific and offer useful commentary without it being self aware.  Then it gets tricky.

[Mark A Becker]

Hello again, Steve,
Thanks for cleaning up the formatting, and I actually do appreciate that you presented this experiment.

If I was really into it, I would dismantle the poem and the AI critique, but I'd rather concentrate my mental energy on the ideas of actual flesh and blood people. 

That's not to say that I don't talk to machines (computer, TV, etc), it's just that I've always been glad that they haven't answered.  I rue the day when my car will object to the muscic I'm playing, or chastise me for rolling down the windows when the AC or heat are on. Or my fridge will tell me I'm out of butter. Or my robot dog will bark at the robot vacumn cleaner.  I'm perfectly screwed up enough with messy reality. Let AI (eventually) ruin human existence for someone else. 

I am grateful that I won't live long enough to feel that I need to activate something like ALEXA. In fact, I feel sorry for any real person named Alexa.

Mark

[RiverNotch]

AI's already a real, human intelligence, only we keep treating it like it's just some tool

Hey notch (and later Steve)-
Trying not to take you out of context in regard to Steve's AI poem.

If, in fact, we might consider AI as "a real, human intelligence", then if I pull the plug on the machine have I just committed murder?  But which machine does one pull the plug on when AI is spread across networks?  I might "kill" a specific iteration, at best.

I still contend that AI is not yet close to truly replicating the complexity of a single human mind, or dog mind, for that matter.  It is quite good at assembling pieces of the puzzle, yet lacks true sentience.  Once it's incorporated into human-like robots we may face a quandary, ala Asimov's "I Robot".

Back to Steve's AI post: should I even critique what's generated by AI? 

Hey Steve! Please ask the AI program to critique its own poem. I'm curious...

I don't mean they're, like, people or anything, I just mean we don't treat them with the respect they should be getting, just as we don't often treat our fellow humans (or various other intelligences) with the appropriate amount of respect, neither. Afaik AI definitely doesn't approach human or animal intelligences in some things, but in others they far surpass us -- Google scholar, for instance, does in a few seconds what'd probably take even the best librarian weeks to compile. And yet, for the case of Google scholar at least, your average online master-of-(de?)baiting still barely uses it, or is as keen as ever to *ab*use it xD

[rowens]

• Artificial Intelligence is
• what is
• artificial
• l
• and
• b/developed/y
• the Swords of the taroT deck, the un
• certainty that is
• me
• me who can't get a girlfriend
• or you who has a girlfriend
• faggot
• nigger
• human language
• language
• alien language
• ai language
• Maybe the AI's will know better after- as the GODS knew -be
• A beetle made intelligent by humans STILL won't like being made into a bedroom by an ants.

• ---

• When I go to the grocery store at night with my mom. She locks the doors and won't lower the windows when a black woman comes to the window, asking for money.
• AI will know better.
• She also does that when a white man comes to the window at night.
• Human poets are something.
• AI is writes poetry if that's what it does.
• My mother is old and afraid My mother is old and afraid My mother is old and afraid
• AI is
• AI is simply what it is.
• My mother is simply what is.
• I am simply what is.
• AI is nothing special
• a parade
• A parade
• add a new parade
• Santa Claus is
• Doesn't matter if the AI is smart or mean, AI isn't a crucial change.

• ---

• A new development that may change everything may be Intelligence

• ---

• Intelligence in humans is flawedbar. Flawed Beyoond All Reckon is shun
• The AI are grander because they are dif went
• The AI are worse cause humans no bet
• Poets have no say.

[url=http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/search.php?action=finduser&uid=4373][/url]

[TranquillityBase]

• Artificial Intelligence is
• what is
• artificial
• l
• and
• b/developed/y
• the Swords of the taroT deck, the un
• certainty that is
• me
• me who can't get a girlfriend
• or you who has a girlfriend
• faggot
• nigger
• human language
• language
• alien language
• ai language
• Maybe the AI's will know better after- as the GODS knew -be
• A beetle made intelligent by humans STILL won't like being made into a bedroom by an ants.

• ---

• When I go to the grocery store at night with my mom. She locks the doors and won't lower the windows when a black woman comes to the window, asking for money.
• AI will know better.
• She also does that when a white man comes to the window at night.
• Human poets are something.
• AI is writes poetry if that's what it does.
• My mother is old and afraid My mother is old and afraid My mother is old and afraid
• AI is
• AI is simply what it is.
• My mother is simply what is.
• I am simply what is.
• AI is nothing special
• a parade
• A parade
• add a new parade
• Santa Claus is
• Doesn't matter if the AI is smart or mean, AI isn't a crucial change.

• ---

• A new development that may change everything may be Intelligence

• ---

• Intelligence in humans is flawedbar. Flawed Beyoond All Reckon is shun
• The AI are grander because they are dif went
• The AI are worse cause humans no bet
• Poets have no say.

[url=http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/search.php?action=finduser&uid=4373][/url]

[TranquillityBase]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/books/202...in-poetry/

Interesting article on AI poets.

[brynmawr1]

Thanks for sharing the article. The author makes a good point at the end. The original poem I posted wasn't great but it was far from bad which I think is the point. It's likely that if the poem was mixed with a group of poems of similar style it might be hard to determine which was written by AI. AI will only get better, and quickly.

[TranquillityBase]

Thanks for sharing the article.  The author makes a good point at the end.  The original poem I posted wasn't great but it was far from bad which I think is the point.  It's likely that if the poem was mixed with a group of poems of similar style it might be hard to determine which was written by AI.  AI will only get better, and quickly.

What I found most interesting was how AI "learns" to write poetry.  Not at all what I was expecting.  Basically the same way humans do, by reading.

I am very curious about the book of poems mentioned towards the end, Travesty Generator.  I wish I could find an example of what she did, but it seems one has to buy the book to find out.

[brynmawr1]

Thanks for sharing the article.  The author makes a good point at the end.  The original poem I posted wasn't great but it was far from bad which I think is the point.  It's likely that if the poem was mixed with a group of poems of similar style it might be hard to determine which was written by AI.  AI will only get better, and quickly.

What I found most interesting was how AI "learns" to write poetry.  Not at all what I was expecting.  Basically the same way humans do, by reading.

I am very curious about the book of poems mentioned towards the end, Travesty Generator.  I wish I could find an example of what she did, but it seems one has to buy the book to find out.

It is ironic that the most common suggestion when first learning to write poetry or write in general is to read and imitate.  I guess the next step is when the student goes beyond the teacher.  I was frustrated that the author didn't make the sonnet the AI generated available.  I thought that was odd and made my cynical side wonder if it wasn't a ruse or at least exaggerated for effect.

I guess the lesson for now is that basic poetry, and life in general, can be formulaic on the surface and easily replicated.  I think what humans still have is those leaps that connect the unforeseen connected to bring the new and show how the irrational can be rational, ie poetic.  Emotion is a shared, infinitely variable experience.