Around the Table...edit 2.00001 knot,duke

[tectak]

At the table sat my father and his father, too.
There  were others seated round, faces that I barely knew;
some hagard, weak as ancient Yews that sprawling in old graveyards grew,
their trembling limbs held up by props
to lift and hold  them  from the ground.
This was my memory.
 
At the table sat my friends, some of whom I'd lost to time.
How we talked and how we laughed, we told old tales, we spilt the wine;
then looked to see  our father’s eyes, for all their  fathers sat with mine, 
but only saw the loving smiles
upon the faces of the proud.
We were their memories.
 
At the table, husbands, wives; mothers, children by their side.
Those with god prayed for the quick, none spouted cant for those who died.

We all depart  so leaving  spaces
once filled by loved, familiar faces.
Time moves us on; our destiny
is someone else’s memory. 



Original
Around the table sat my father and his father, too.
There  were others gathered there, strangers that I felt I knew;
hagard as the ancient Yews that sprawling in the graveyards grew,
their feeble limbs held up by props
to lift and keep  them  from the ground.
This was my memory.
 
Around the table sat my friends, some of whom I'd lost to time.
They  talked to me and laughed with me, we  told our tales, we spilt our wine;
we looked to see  our father’s eyes, for all their  fathers sat with mine,
but only saw the loving smiles
upon the faces of the proud.
We were their memories.
 
Around the table, husbands, wives; mothers, children by their side.
We were their fathers, daughters, sons, brothers, sisters…all who died.
We all depart  so leaving  spaces
filled once by loved, familiar faces.
Time moves us on; our destiny
is someone else’s memory. 
Tectak
2018
(Alternative title… Funerals more than Christenings these days)

[dukealien]

Around the table sat my father and his father, too.
There  were others gathered there, strangers that I felt I knew;  perhaps em-dash rather than semicolon for more continuity of thought?
but looking older than the yews that black and haggard grew good internal rhyme yews-grew... could it be "yew," collective, to perfect the rhyme?
 by graves, weak limbs held up by props
 to lift and raise them  from the ground.  like the rhythm, but "lift" and "raise" repititious - could one be a word with a more different meaning, perhaps more visual?
This was my memory.
 
Around the table sat my friends, and some whom I had lost to time.  "lost to time" is good.
They  talked to me and laughed with me, we  told old tales, we all spilt wine; is repeated "with me" necessary?
we looked to see  our father’s eyes, for all their  fathers sat with mine,
but only saw the loving smiles could this "the" be "their?"  Lot of "the" in the next line, but "their" in the previous; could a bigger change fit, such as "each loving smile?"  But better than that...
upon the faces of the proud.
We were their memories.  Beautiful: slightly different senses of "their" as, belonging to them vs. ours concerning them - both relevant.
 
Around the table, husbands, wives, some  with children by their side.  "[b]y their side" a little rough grammatically - strictly, should be "sides."  "On the side" is a little too humorous/cliche but satisfies the rhyme.  A puzzle.
We were their fathers, daughters, sons, brothers, sisters…all who died;  I read this with a pause after "sons" and none after "sisters."  Suggest an em-dash after "sons" and comma rather than ellipsis after "sisters," but that's just my reading.
as all must die and so become
a temporary  loss to some,
until again we  meet to be excellent dodge of the "we meet again" cliche!
someone else’s memory.
 
Tectak
2018
(Alternative title… Funerals more than Christenings these days)

Like this very much, which may make intensive criticism difficult.   Treat all the above as suggestions, might be trying too hard.

Central question:  do the dead remember, or consist of memories?  Answer ambiguous.

Good title choice - "Christenings" in the alternate lacks support in the poem.[/b]

[Knot]

Hi tectak.

Around the Table...
Title, plus ellipsis, then the same phrase immediately repeated
in L1. Reads a bit oddly to me.
Around the table sat my father and his father, too.
Given its prominence, I'd like some sort of description of the table.
Or, failing that, a location.
There were others gathered there, strangers that I felt I knew;
I like the image, but the phrasing seems unnatural, forced to fit the meter.
Were all the others 'strangers'? And why did N 'feel' that he/she knew them?
but looking older than the yews that black and haggard grew
nice
by graves, weak limbs held up by props
(Pity you couldn't get 'aloft by props' for the sonics)
'graves' is a bit explicit I think - though I do like
how it works with 'from the ground'.
to lift and raise them from the ground.
'lift and raise' is redundant given 'props' (also, lift and raise? Same thing?)
This was my memory.
When?

Around the table sat my friends, and some whom I had lost to time.
'some whom' - are these more 'strangers'?
'lost to time' is too clichéd (in the context), why not 'some of whom, in time I'd lost'?
They talked to me and laughed with me, we told old tales, we all spilt wine;
Shouldn't this begin 'We...'? (as does the following line).
Or, if they are around the table (all hail fellow, well met) then where is N?
we looked to see our father’s eyes, for all their fathers sat with mine,
but only saw the loving smiles
upon the faces of the proud.
Hate to do it but...where else would their smiles be?
We were their memories.
Are rather than 'were'?

Around the table, husbands, wives, some with children by their side.
We were their fathers, daughters, sons, brothers, sisters…all who died;
as all must die and so become
isn't this all a bit too obvious?
a temporary loss to some,
'temporary' - really ugly phrase.
until again we meet to be
someone else’s memory.
This verse feels too repetitious (and rambling) - does it really add anything
to the first two? I think it the second verse offers a stronger finish.

Best, Knot.

[tectak]

Hi tectak.

Around the Table...
Title, plus ellipsis, then the same phrase immediately repeated
in L1. Reads a bit oddly to me.Agreed. Credited
Around the table sat my father and his father, too.
Given its prominence, I'd like some sort of description of the table.
Or, failing that, a location.I do not know why you feel that the table is consequencial but here goes It was of glued and pinned construction and of light oak with an inlay of walnut...polished and laquered. It had four legs but was expandable by drop-down leaf on both ends. Each leaf was  a million miles long and capable of further extension as required.
There were others gathered there, strangers that I felt I knew;
I like the image, but the phrasing seems unnatural, forced to fit the meter.
Were all the others 'strangers'? And why did N 'feel' that he/she knew them?Read on.
but looking older than the yews that black and haggard grew
nice
by graves, weak limbs held up by props
(Pity you couldn't get 'aloft by props' for the sonics)I will look again at this
'graves' is a bit explicit I think - though I do like
how it works with 'from the ground'.
to lift and raise them from the ground.
'lift and raise' is redundant given 'props' (also, lift and raise? Same thing?)
This was my memory.
When?Why...I mean why is it relevent?

Around the table sat my friends, and some whom I had lost to time.
'some whom' - are these more 'strangers'?Oops. The "and" is confusing. Good catch.Credited.
'lost to time' is too clichéd (in the context), why not 'some of whom, in time I'd lost'?No. Inversion is not an escape. It's moot.
They talked to me and laughed with me, we told old tales, we all spilt wine;
Shouldn't this begin 'We...'? (as does the following line).Why?
Or, if they are around the table (all hail fellow, well met) then where is N?
we looked to see our father’s eyes, for all their fathers sat with mine,
but only saw the loving smiles
upon the faces of the proud.
Hate to do it but...where else would their smiles be?Only on the proud faces...not on the others...emphasis on only.
We were their memories.
Are rather than 'were'?Depends if its a Tuesday or not

Around the table, husbands, wives, some with children by their side.
We were their fathers, daughters, sons, brothers, sisters…all who died;
as all must die and so become
isn't this all a bit too obvious?As with a whole heap of obvious things...we just don't see them. At least, that's why this is here.
a temporary loss to some,
'temporary' - really ugly phrase.Agreed...will change.
until again we meet to be
someone else’s memory.
This verse feels too repetitious (and rambling) - does it really add anything
to the first two? I think it the second verse offers a stronger finish.Disagree...will keep.

Best, Knot.

Thanks knot.
Keep watching.
Best,
 tectak

[Knot]

Hi tectak.

Around the Table...
...
I do not know why you feel that the table is consequential
You mean beyond the fact it is in the title and the first line of each verse?
but here goes It was of glued and pinned construction
and of light oak with an inlay of walnut...polished and laquered.
It had four legs but was expandable by drop-down leaf on both ends.
Each leaf was a million miles long and capable of further extension as required.
description suggests a domestic setting, intimacy, history, 'Sunday best', etc.
Grounds the piece, for want of a term.
...
This was my memory.
When?
Why...I mean why is it relevent?
Memory of a child, of an adult (at a particular stage in life)...all would carry different implications I think.

...
They talked to me and laughed with me, we told old tales, we all spilt wine;
Shouldn't this begin 'We...'? (as does the following line).
Why?
Because N is part of the 'group' everywhere except in the first line of this verse
and the beginning of this line.
They talked to suggests (perhaps) that N wasn't sitting with them 'around the table'
but was some literal or metaphorical distance away. Then by the time 'we all spilt wine'
N was part of the group/at the table. So what changed?
...
upon the faces of the proud.
Only on the proud faces...not on the others...emphasis on only.
then, 'but saw only the loving smiles...' ?
We were their memories.
Are rather than 'were'?
Depends if its a Tuesday or not
If were, then what are 'we' now?

Around the table, husbands, wives, some with children by their side.
...
isn't this all a bit too obvious?
As with a whole heap of obvious things...
we just don't see them. At least, that's why this is here.
Ok, but do you need the two lists?
'Around the table, all who died as all must die and so become...'?

Knot

[tectak]

Around the table sat my father and his father, too.
There  were others gathered there, strangers that I felt I knew;  perhaps em-dash rather than semicolon for more continuity of thought?
but looking older than the yews that black and haggard grew good internal rhyme yews-grew... could it be "yew," collective, to perfect the rhyme?
 by graves, weak limbs held up by props
 to lift and raise them  from the ground.  like the rhythm, but "lift" and "raise" repititious - could one be a word with a more different meaning, perhaps more visual?
This was my memory.
 
Around the table sat my friends, and some whom I had lost to time.  "lost to time" is good.
They  talked to me and laughed with me, we  told old tales, we all spilt wine; is repeated "with me" necessary?
we looked to see  our father’s eyes, for all their  fathers sat with mine,
but only saw the loving smiles could this "the" be "their?"  Lot of "the" in the next line, but "their" in the previous; could a bigger change fit, such as "each loving smile?"  But better than that...
upon the faces of the proud.
We were their memories.  Beautiful: slightly different senses of "their" as, belonging to them vs. ours concerning them - both relevant.
 
Around the table, husbands, wives, some  with children by their side.  "[b]y their side" a little rough grammatically - strictly, should be "sides."  "On the side" is a little too humorous/cliche but satisfies the rhyme.  A puzzle.
We were their fathers, daughters, sons, brothers, sisters…all who died;  I read this with a pause after "sons" and none after "sisters."  Suggest an em-dash after "sons" and comma rather than ellipsis after "sisters," but that's just my reading.
as all must die and so become
a temporary  loss to some,
until again we  meet to be excellent dodge of the "we meet again" cliche!
someone else’s memory.
 
Tectak
2018
(Alternative title… Funerals more than Christenings these days)

Like this very much, which may make intensive criticism difficult.   Treat all the above as suggestions, might be trying too hard.

Central question:  do the dead remember, or consist of memories?  Answer ambiguous.

Good title choice - "Christenings" in the alternate lacks support in the poem.[/b]

Hi duke,
many thanks for this. All crit eaten. Credited. Do the dead remember? No, I can say that with certainty...who can argue?
Best,
tectak

[tectak]

Hi tectak.

Around the Table...
...
I do not know why you feel that the table is consequential
You mean beyond the fact it is in the title and the first line of each verse?
but here goes It was of glued and pinned construction
and of light oak with an inlay of walnut...polished and laquered.
It had four legs but was expandable by drop-down leaf on both ends.
Each leaf was a million miles long and capable of further extension as required.
description suggests a domestic setting, intimacy, history, 'Sunday best', etc.
Grounds the piece, for want of a term.
...
This was my memory.
When?
Why...I mean why is it relevent?
Memory of a child, of an adult (at a particular stage in life)...all would carry different implications I think.

...
They talked to me and laughed with me, we told old tales, we all spilt wine;
Shouldn't this begin 'We...'? (as does the following line).
Why?
Because N is part of the 'group' everywhere except in the first line of this verse
and the beginning of this line.
They talked to suggests (perhaps) that N wasn't sitting with them 'around the table'
but was some literal or metaphorical distance away. Then by the time 'we all spilt wine'
N was part of the group/at the table. So what changed?
...
upon the faces of the proud.
Only on the proud faces...not on the others...emphasis on only.
then, 'but saw only the loving smiles...' ?
We were their memories.
Are rather than 'were'?
Depends if its a Tuesday or not
If were, then what are 'we' now?

Around the table, husbands, wives, some with children by their side.
...
isn't this all a bit too obvious?
As with a whole heap of obvious things...
we just don't see them. At least, that's why this is here.
Ok, but do you need the two lists?
'Around the table, all who died as all must die and so become...'?

Knot

Good crit, knot. Changes are on the way,
 best, 
 tectak

[Knot]

Hi tectak.

At the table sat my father and his father, too.
There were others seated round, faces that I barely knew;
some hagard, weak as ancient Yews that sprawling in old graveyards grew,
'some' is left hanging
(Perhaps 'churchyards' for 'graveyards' ?)
their trembling limbs held up by props
to lift and hold them from the ground.
Still think this line is problematic.
It basically says the same thing as the preceding line,
but less interestingly. Perhaps a description of the ground?
This was my memory.


At the table sat my friends, some of whom I'd lost to time.
How we talked and how we laughed, everytime we spilt the wine;
Comparatively weak line, I think (time/everytime).
Perhaps describe the mood, rather than the actions?
then looked to see our father’s eyes, for all their fathers sat with mine,
but only saw the loving smiles
upon the faces of the proud.
(begs the question of what you saw on the faces
of those who were not proud)
We were their memories.

Do you need the final lines of the first and second verses?

At the table, husbands, wives; mothers, children by their side.
A list? Really?
Those with god prayed for the quick, none spouted cant for those who died.
Don't think these two line work at all.

We all depart so leaving spaces
filled once by loved, familiar faces.
'filled once'? (to be filled by familiar faces ?)
Time moves us on; our destiny
is someone else’s memory.
[if we're lucky ]

Best, Knot.