On Criticism

[Leanne]

No censure or unneeded praise
comes from a master, only roads
gone upwards. A true guide will raise
-- by coaxing or at times with goads --
the seeker to an equal plain,
if such exists. To crush does naught
but shrink the pool; small fish may gain
and yet that kind is always caught.
A poem only ends when we
decide to close our eyes; no page
holds everything there ought to be
if closed off minds will not engage.

[billy]

only roads gone upwards; for some reason it feels like a road less travelled
nice tetrameter and end rhyme. and with a wise message, i like it.

[Leanne]

Less travelled indeed, Billy -- and a bloody shame too, the view is quite spectacular.

[billy]

i think it's possible to be kind and honest at the same time.
sadly most just offer kindness.

[Leanne]

That's because people like to be liked. Me, I don't care, I'm a nasty bitch

[billy]

you can point out something that needs an edit without breaking their spirit you witch

[critical mass]

No censure or unneeded praise
comes from a master, only roads
gone upwards. A true guide will raise
-- by coaxing or at times with goads --
the seeker to an equal plain,
if such exists. To crush does naught
but shrink the pool; small fish may gain
and yet that kind is always caught.
A poem only ends when we
decide to close our eyes; no page
holds everything there ought to be
if closed off minds will not engage.

Really liked this.

naught threw me off a bit, twisting the syntax seemed to be a must to fit the verse tho.

no page holds everything there ought to be
if closed off minds will not engage.

nicely said.

David

[critical mass]

i think it's possible to be kind and honest at the same time.
sadly most just offer kindness.

Maybe it is possible, but usually honesty and kindness are opposite alternatives.
Honesty can be brutal, while kindness is often a white lie reinforcing the recipient's delusions.

The classic example of the difference between the two is when a woman asks you: Does this dress make me look fat?
Will your answer be honest, or kind?

My answer would be I like big bottom women.

David

[billy]

i didn't have a problem with it. in fact i thought it good, so much so that it reminded me of the road less travelled. (which is often the best one to take. )

Maybe it is possible, but usually honesty and kindness are opposite alternatives.
Honesty can be brutal, while kindness is often a white lie reinforcing the recipient's delusions.

not in giving feedback or critic.
you point out why something doesn't work for you, as in, this doesn't work for me because, or would it read better without the last two lines.

it could also be said as; i think that's shite, or, what the fuck are the two last lines there for. they don't do fuck all for the poem.

in feedback, kindness is a little bit of respect. a way to not cause hurt. i can critique a poem showing what i perceive as all it flaws without purposefully hurting or demeaning the poet. i know what it's like to have some nasty bastard tear my work to shreds just for the sake of it. sadly i have on occasion done the deed myself

as for the dress thing. i'd tell the truth and see doing so as being kind.

good to see you posting here, try a posting a poem or leaving some feedback on a few of the poem. in the poetry section

[Leanne]

The classic example of the difference between the two is when a woman asks you: Does this dress make me look fat?
Will your answer be honest, or kind?

That's such a well-worn argument that everyone knows there's no right answer by now. Besides, only a woman insecure enough to care about the opinion of a man would ask such a thing.

On the roads thing -- would you elaborate? Why doesn't it work for you and do you have a suggestion for improvement?

Don't feel you need to be kind. I'm not an insecure woman.

[Leanne]

I believe this was the first poem I posted here. I haven't changed my stance on this in all the intervening years.

[billy]

five years, that's a prison sentence i still can't believe we were able to keep you, at the time you started we were all over the place.

[Leanne]

The site was just like a teenage angsty poet -- loads of potential, but too full of hormones to settle down without some supervision

[CRNDLSM]

this seems too smart to be for fun . . .

[Leanne]

this seems too smart to be for fun . . .

I... genuinely don't know how to respond to that 

[dukealien]

Maybe it is possible, but usually honesty and kindness are opposite alternatives.
Honesty can be brutal, while kindness is often a white lie reinforcing the recipient's delusions.

The classic example of the difference between the two is when a woman asks you: Does this dress make me look fat?
Will your answer be honest, or kind?

No and yes (a very early sonnet)

Yes to Love’s Test


You ask, as not a few, time out of mind,
Of me, your hand-fast love, put to the test,
If this dress makes you look fat.  How can best
I answer the dilemma thus defined?

A “Yes” insults your style and, more unkind,
Concedes you could look ugly badly dressed.
But saying “No” admits I may have guessed
Your shame about your weight.  A hateful bind!

To slip this knot of woe, then, speak, my heart,
And say the gown you’re wearing does indeed
Make you look heavier.  In that I rejoice,
For lately, love, thin, stricken by the dart
Of care you’ve seemed.  I love to see you freed
From that, more shapely.  “Yes” must be my choice.

[RiverNotch]

No censure or unneeded praise
comes from a master, only roads
gone upwards.  A true guide will raise
-- by coaxing or at times with goads --
the seeker to an equal plain,
if such exists.  To crush does naught
but shrink the pool; small fish may gain
and yet that kind is always caught.
A poem only ends when we
decide to close our eyes; no page
holds everything there ought to be
if closed off minds will not engage.

<3 Another new favorite, however old.

Maybe it is possible, but usually honesty and kindness are opposite alternatives.
Honesty can be brutal, while kindness is often a white lie reinforcing the recipient's delusions.

The classic example of the difference between the two is when a woman asks you: Does this dress make me look fat?
Will your answer be honest, or kind?

No and yes (a very early sonnet)  

Yes to Love’s Test


You ask, as not a few, time out of mind,
Of me, your hand-fast love, put to the test,
If this dress makes you look fat.  How can best
I answer the dilemma thus defined?

A “Yes” insults your style and, more unkind,
Concedes you could look ugly badly dressed.
But saying “No” admits I may have guessed
Your shame about your weight.  A hateful bind!

To slip this knot of woe, then, speak, my heart,
And say the gown you’re wearing does indeed
Make you look heavier.  In that I rejoice,
For lately, love, thin, stricken by the dart
Of care you’ve seemed.  I love to see you freed
From that, more shapely.  “Yes” must be my choice.

Does this dress make me look fat?

Not really -- you're quite thin, for a pig.


Does this dress make me look fat?

Does it matter? You look pretty either way.

Not to others I don't.

Those others don't love you.

It's not about love, it's about control.


Does this dress make me look fat?

Yes, yes it does.

Well....alright. I guess I'll change then.

Don't. I'll change instead -- where are those daisy dukes I cut?

[RC James]

Amen to that.