Leopard

[Julius]

Leopard

Mottled shadows move
undisturbed okapi feeds
relishing last meal.

[Keith]

I like the movement in the opening against the stillness of the second line you set up prey and predator really well, maybe graze instead of feeds ?, the twist in the last line works well but I would take another look at the phrasing something feels slightly off. All said I enjoyed your short very much. Best Keith

[Julius]

Thank you Keith, I can entirely see what you are getting at. I like graze, but would have to use grazes to indicate only one okapi eating his last meal, which adds an extra unwanted syllable. I will work around it - perhaps change okapi to zebra although I read that okapi are the favourite prey of leopards. I agree the last line feels somewhat cumbersome. I shall have a think and come back

[Erthona]

As this is not an ELH anyway except in terms of the syllable count (there is no seasonal word), "grazes" is much more descriptive of a herbivore, feed is more akin to a meat eater. Disregarding the syllable count you could then include the much needed "his" in the last line. These two changes vastly improves the poem and who really gives a damn about the syllable count, especially as this is not going to be a haiku regardless.

dale

[ellajam]

I'm not of a mind to pore over the pages of seasonal words but for me "graze" might be one.

We have some threads here on non-syllable-counting haiku around here, I'll take a look.

http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/thread-5432.html?highlight=haiku

http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/thread-15532.html?highlight=haiku

http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/thread-17813.html?highlight=haiku

http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/thread-18147.html?highlight=haiku

[Julius]

As this is not an ELH anyway except in terms of the syllable count (there is no seasonal word), "grazes" is much more descriptive of a herbivore, feed is more akin to a meat eater. Disregarding the syllable count you could then include the much needed "his" in the last line. These two changes vastly improves the poem and who really gives a damn about the syllable count, especially as this is not going to be a haiku regardless.

dale

Hi Dale,
I find seeking advice on a new endeavour can be quite confusing. I think this is especially so when what advice you can find is contradictory. For example insistence that there must be a seasonal word otherwise it cannot be a haiku conflicts with other haiku rule descriptions which start "usually" or "originally". I realise that advice gleaned from the internet must always be taken with a "pinch of salt". The following is advice that I have tried to follow:-

Haiku was traditionally written in the present tense and focused on associations between images. There was a pause at the end of the first or second line, and a “season word," or kigo, specified the time of year.


As the form has evolved, many of these rules—including the 5/7/5 practice—have been routinely broken. However, the philosophy of haiku has been preserved: the focus on a brief moment in time; a use of provocative, colorful images; an ability to be read in one breath; and a sense of sudden enlightenment and illumination.

https://www.poets.org/poetsorg/text/poetic-form-haiku

[Erthona]

I'm all for the last on, er one, however there is nothing in it to suggest it is anything other than a short poem. I had a friend who had married a Japanese woman, whose brother was one of the more well known writers of Haiku and who also spoke English fluently. My friend asked him what he thought about (ELH) and he basically called it a farce, a joke. As I was never big on (ELH) it did not surprise me. What most (ELH) is also missing is the "kiru" and the "kireji". Also in English we have no "saijiki" as in Japan there is a specific list of "kigo". In English we go with this idea of "seasonal word" which basically can mean anything, such as ella's "graze". I don't really see how that is a seasonal word even in English as herbivores "graze" year round, not in a particular season. IN Japan things are very structured as far as haiku, not to mention it is as much a visual art form as it is a verbal one. In English we are incapable of this, there is really no way to write vertically and it makes no sense, not the the way it does in Japanese.

You know it is perfectly OK to write short form poems and not have to call it anything. (ELH) imposes artificial limits on the English language that are neither necessary or beneficial. About the only use I see for (ELH) is a learning tool, to teach brevity in word use.

Personally I would forget trying to shoehorn something into a (ELH) form, if by breaking that form, one could produce a better poem. Of course the prerogative is yours to do as you will, everybody must find their own way.

dale

PS The idea of saying something in one breath is really just a lift of how Ginsberg described how long a line should be, so basically a person would be writing one line of beat.

[srijantje]

never mind all the blabla,Julius,the image it created was spot on

[Julius]

I'm not of a mind to pore over the pages of seasonal words but for me "graze" might be one.

We have some threads here on non-syllable-counting haiku around here, I'll take a look.

http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/thread-5432.html?highlight=haiku

http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/thread-15532.html?highlight=haiku

http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/thread-17813.html?highlight=haiku

http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/thread-18147.html?highlight=haiku

Thank you ellajam, the links lead to some interesting points. I see Billy mentioned a big list of seasonal words so perhaps he meant this one :-

http://www.2hweb.net/haikai/renku/500ESWd.html

---

I'm all for the last on, er one, however there is nothing in it to suggest it is anything other than a short poem. I had a friend who had married a Japanese woman, whose brother was one of the more well known writers of Haiku and who also spoke English fluently. My friend asked him what he thought about (ELH) and he basically called it a farce, a joke. As I was never big on (ELH) it did not surprise me. What most (ELH) is also missing is the "kiru" and the "kireji". Also in English we have no "saijiki" as in Japan there is a specific list of "kigo". In English we go with this idea of "seasonal word" which basically can mean anything, such as ella's "graze". I don't really see how that is a seasonal word even in English as herbivores "graze" year round, not in a particular season. IN Japan things are very structured as far as haiku, not to mention it is as much a visual art form as it is a verbal one. In English we are incapable of this, there is really no way to write vertically and it makes no sense, not the the way it does in Japanese.

You know it is perfectly OK to write short form poems and not have to call it anything. (ELH) imposes artificial limits on the English language that are neither necessary or beneficial. About the only use I see for (ELH) is a learning tool, to teach brevity in word use.

Personally I would forget trying to shoehorn something into a (ELH) form, if by breaking that form, one could produce a better poem. Of course the prerogative is yours to do as you will, everybody must find their own way.

dale

PS The idea of saying something in one breath is really just a lift of how Ginsberg described how long a line should be, so basically a person would be writing one line of beat.

 Hi Dale,

I rather like your explanation, it explains a lot that has gone through my mind. In trying to understand the concept of a haiku I have, of course, read quite a few which are translations of what are described as model poems. To be truthful they often seem to be rather simplistic and to my untrained eye hardly poetry. However they seem to be held in high esteem by the “establishment” and it seemed quite possible to produce something similar. Perhaps anyone who decks himself in English Language Haiku “clothing” is wearing the emperor's new clothes?

Before I give up on the haiku I just might try a Lune or American Haiku. Its shorter form and absence of rules might be worth trying. I would hazard a guess that you and Robert Kelly would have much in common.

http://www.writersdigest.com/editor-blog...-form-lune

[Julius]

never mind all the blabla,Julius,the image it created was spot on

Thank you. I'm glad that, whatever the technical merits of my little poem, you were able to feel an impact from the lines