In a Fall

[Larry B.]

I am a total poetry novice. I haven't had time to do much reading and studying on this great site, but I want to make it a much higher priority in the future.

This is really what I consider to be my first poem, and by that I mean that I revised it a number of times over the last couple of months when I had the time and inclination to work on it again, instead of what I usually do, just throw down a bunch of verbiage and then move on to something else. This is a very, very simple poem that I'm making for a very dear, close friend, so, in that regard, it's more than adequate, because she will have a reference point from which to evaluate it. And I can fill in the blanks in discussing it with her, if necessary. I plan to make an 11"x14" digital photo print containing the poem and a graphic image I'm making, and give it to her as a Christmas gift.

I'd love any feedback that I can get from anyone, because I want to get ideas to make the poem the best that it can be, with the rather simplistic message that it contains. I have personal reasons to make it four stanzas with four lines in each stanza, to make it compatible with a poem my friend made for me earlier this year. I'd very much appreciate feedback from ellajam -- for the sweet, feminine input -- and from tectak -- who I hope rips it to shreads, if he feels it's appropriate, because I want to improve it -- and from anyone else who wishes to give his or her impressions.

Well, that's about it, and here's my little ditty:

In a Fall

As leaves flutter to the ground,
Some might wonder what they've found
In a life filled with wonder,
Sunshine, rain, wind, and thunder.

Change does arrive in the fall,
May also in falls from grace
That take one to a new place,
Some of life's issues to face.

There, nervously awaiting,
Even anticipating
Interpretations anew,
Displaying another view.

With time, insights come and go,
Leading one again to know
That process is nature's way,
Evolving each day by day.

Larry B. ... ...  ... thanks, all !!!

[just mercedes]

Hi Larry - your poem opens with an image of leaves - and that's the only real thing in your poem. You move into abstract terms at once, and lose me. Rather than recite a list of things known, a poem seeks to show these things in a new way.

I like the opening image, of leaves falling to the ground - it's a necessary part of the cycle of life, and I think that's the message you want your poem to send. Can you take that image further?

You've used end line rhyme, but with no pattern. aabb cddd eeff gghh For me it feels clumsy. There's no regular syllable count to the lines either.

As does the second line in the second stanza. Although grammatically correct, it's hard to read.

I like the idea of returning a poem for a poem, that's wonderful! I like the sentiments you're working with, and I wish you luck with revising!

[Larry B.]

Hi Larry -
Hello, just mercedes. Thank you for responding.

your poem opens with an image of leaves - and that's the only real thing in your poem.
True, the poem deals with emotional growth resulting from one analyzing his reactions and behaviors during difficult times and disagreements in a close relationship -- the cycle of "ups and downs" that most committed relationships go through periodically. This particular poem was written in response to one such recent incident this fall. Hence the term "fall," and my using that term, in a pun sort of way, in "fall from grace," which is often the outcome of such a disagreement -- (and, really what this poem deals with.) My friend should understand the "fall" connection, and I'll explain everything she doesn't pick up on. (Also, for many people, fall is a sad part of the year, because summer is over and winter looms ahead. Many people use this season for self reflection.)

You move into abstract terms at once, and lose me.
I don't understand why you were lost. I'm almost sure you can understand abstraction. Please explain why you were lost. Did you have some preconceptions after you read the first line? If you had them, should you have had them? Thanks.

Rather than recite a list of things known, a poem seeks to show these things in a new way.
Well, I think there are many different types of poems, not only those that show things in new ways, maybe some just reinforce things well known, with a few poetic stylistics. Am I wrong in this thinking? But I'll agree that poems showing things in new ways are more interesting and informative. This poem tries to "document" a recent incident, and my earlier drafts were much more abstract, and as I revised it, I tried to make it more understandable, and to characterize the nature of periodic "ups and downs" in a relationship, and the rebuilding that takes place afterward, after a "fall from grace."

I like the opening image, of leaves falling to the ground - it's a necessary part of the cycle of life, and I think that's the message you want your poem to send. Can you take that image further?
Well, I tried to characterize the cycles in relationships, the "ups and downs," specifically recovering from a low point.

You've used end line rhyme, but with no pattern. aabb cddd eeff gghh For me it feels clumsy.
True, the second stanza deviates from the pattern of the other three stanzas. I started out with ccdd for the second stanza in trying to keep everything uniform, but in revising it, I changed the second line and the third and fourth lines naturally fell into place, and I liked the way it increased the pace of the reading for that stanza (from my perspective, of course.) For me, in reading it, that stanza somewhat "forcefully" stands out, and, as such, defines the subject of the poem. The last two stanzas deal with a process of facing life's issues. Do you feel differently about the second stanza and its place in the poem after this explanation? I can go back and try to make it ccdd, if you think cddd ruins the whole thing? What do you think? Can't one deviate a tad from rigidity for emphasis, to reinforce a point? Thanks for any input you can give me, just mercedes.

There's no regular syllable count to the lines either.
Unless I'm mistaken, each line has seven syllables, unless you're counting a comma as a syllable. I purposely made the second line in each stanza flow directly into the third, without a comma, to keep some uniformity of construction.

As does the second line in the second stanza. Although grammatically correct, it's hard to read.
Yes, I agree. I think in an earlier draft I had what's below. (Do you like that better? I do.) I had revised the poem so much that I reached the point of diminishing returns, and decided to post it here to get some feedback from you all.)
Change does arrive in the fall,
Maybe in a fall from grace
That takes one to a new place,
Some of life's issues to face.

I like the idea of returning a poem for a poem, that's wonderful! I like the sentiments you're working with, and I wish you luck with revising!
Thank you, just mercedes. I'm sure the poem will mean a lot to my lady friend. Any more input you can give will be greatly appreciated, maybe even to suggest some revised lines yourself. As Picasso said, "Good artists borrow, great artists steal." So, if I steal one of your poetic revisions, I guess that would make me a great artist, wouldn't it? 

Thanks again,
Larry B.

[Achebe]

I am a total poetry novice. I haven't had time to do much reading and studying on this great site, but I want to make it a much higher priority in the future.

This is really what I consider to be my first poem, and by that I mean that I revised it a number of times over the last couple of months when I had the time and inclination to work on it again, instead of what I usually do, just throw down a bunch of verbiage and then move on to something else. This is a very, very simple poem that I'm making for a very dear, close friend, so, in that regard, it's more than adequate, because she will have a reference point from which to evaluate it. And I can fill in the blanks in discussing it with her, if necessary. I plan to make an 11"x14" digital photo print containing the poem and a graphic image I'm making, and give it to her as a Christmas gift.

I'd love any feedback that I can get from anyone, because I want to get ideas to make the poem the best that it can be, with the rather simplistic message that it contains. I have personal reasons to make it four stanzas with four lines in each stanza, to make it compatible with a poem my friend made for me earlier this year. I'd very much appreciate feedback from ellajam -- for the sweet, feminine input -- and from tectak -- who I hope rips it to shreads, if he feels it's appropriate, because I want to improve it -- and from anyone else who wishes to give his or her impressions.

Well, that's about it, and here's my little ditty:

In a Fall

As leaves flutter to the ground,
Some might wonder what they've found
In a life filled with wonder,
Sunshine, rain, wind, and thunder. .... to match the meter of the previous line

Change does arrives in the xxxx fall, ---- might be a good idea to get rid of the 'does', and instead add in a 2 syllabled word in the part marked xxxx
May also in falls from grace .....to go with the meter of the preceding line
That takes one to a new place, ....I interpreted this to mean that 'change' takes one to a whole new place, not the 'falls from grace'. If the latter, then ok.
Some of life's issues to face.

There, nervously awaiting,
Even anticipating
Interpretations anew,
Displaying another view.....you may want to rethink this line as it's only there for the rhyme.

With time, insights come and go,
Leading one again to know
That process is nature's way, ....might want to capitalise the "P"
Evolving each day by day.

Larry B. ... ...  ... thanks, all !!!

Good luck with your effort.
Apart from the above, my summary observations:

S1 - ok, opening
S2 - ok, talking about changes in life
S3 - ok, carrying on further about changes in life
S4 - some sort of a summary and conclusion that is not easy for the reader to understand.

[QDeathstar]

I am a total poetry novice. I haven't had time to do much reading and studying on this great site, but I want to make it a much higher priority in the future.

This is really what I consider to be my first poem, and by that I mean that I revised it a number of times over the last couple of months when I had the time and inclination to work on it again, instead of what I usually do, just throw down a bunch of verbiage and then move on to something else. This is a very, very simple poem that I'm making for a very dear, close friend, so, in that regard, it's more than adequate, because she will have a reference point from which to evaluate it. And I can fill in the blanks in discussing it with her, if necessary. I plan to make an 11"x14" digital photo print containing the poem and a graphic image I'm making, and give it to her as a Christmas gift.

I'd love any feedback that I can get from anyone, because I want to get ideas to make the poem the best that it can be, with the rather simplistic message that it contains. I have personal reasons to make it four stanzas with four lines in each stanza, to make it compatible with a poem my friend made for me earlier this year. I'd very much appreciate feedback from ellajam -- for the sweet, feminine input -- and from tectak -- who I hope rips it to shreads, if he feels it's appropriate, because I want to improve it -- and from anyone else who wishes to give his or her impressions.

Well, that's about it, and here's my little ditty:

In a Fall

As leaves flutter to the ground,
Some might wonder what they've found  I, We, but definitely get rid of might.
In a life filled with wonder, leaves are a part of a tree, like hair on a person. I'm not sure your metaphore makes sense
Sunshine, rain, wind, and thunder.

Change does arrive in the fall,
May also in falls from grace
That take one to a new place,  this whole stanza is jagged and unclear. Say what you want to say, instead of making it rhyme.  Rhyming is easy, meaning is hard.  I'm honestly not even sure what your trying to say Something about change and life, but, that's all I got
Some of life's issues to face.


There, nervously awaiting,
Even anticipating
Interpretations anew,  Even anticipating does not deserve its own line
Displaying another view.


With time, insights come and go,
Leading one again to know
That process is nature's way,
Evolving each day by day.

Larry B. ... ...  ... thanks, all !!!

Try rewriting this in one stanza, see what you have without the filler and rhyme.

---

I look up and leaves fall.
Drift
___from their grace
as we do
in search of a safer place.

I found it in you.

[just mercedes]

Hi Larry - yes, I'm sorry, your poem does have a consistent syllable count. It's the lack of consistent meter that threw me.

[John1865]

This is  quite a fair first effort, and I enjoyed reading what you put to paper. However, as it has been pointed out elsewhere, your lack of consistent meter quite pulled me away from your poem. I do think that the first thing you do in your first revision, no matter how fiercely you want to pull out your hair, is to strike your poem into a consistent meter (I think Iambs work particularly well in the structure you already have). Now onto particulars:

1. As leaves flutter to the ground,
   
2. Some might wonder what they've found
   
3. In a life filled with wonder,
   
4. Sunshine, rain, wind, and thunder.
   
5. Change does arrive in the fall, 
   
6. May also in falls from grace
   
7. That take one to a new place,
   
8. Some of life's issues to face.
   
9. There, nervously awaiting,
   
10. Even anticipating
    
11. Interpretations anew,
    
12. Displaying another view.
    
13. With time, insights come and go,
    
14. Leading one again to know
    
15. That process is nature's way,
    
16. Evolving each day by day.
    

Line 16: The meter works here, but I think it could be helped with a pause as in: evolving each, day by day. Or, if you want to lessen the emphasis on the effect of evolving, and rather put it on the process, you could write: "evolving each and every day." I think these preserve better the meter you have been working with.

Stanza 2: You had a rhyme scheme going, and you second stanza doesn't present any sort of break with theme, or some grand realization. Therefore, I think it is unnecessary to break with the scheme you had.

Stanza 3: A few breaks with rhythm and meter that I think can be rectified by lengthening the lines, such as:

There they are with nerves awaiting,
As of yet, anticipating
Interpretations all anew
Displaying yet another view (Obviously don't take this word for word, it's just a suggestion)

All in all: A fine poem and a good first effort. I look forward to reading more of your work.

[enigmaticexistence]

As leaves flutter to the ground,
Some might wonder what they've found
In a life filled with wonder, perhaps a different word in line one for a stronger execution (as i see the rhyme comes in L3)
Sunshine, rain, wind, and thunder.

Change does arrive in the fall, 
May also in falls from grace two "falls" too close together; again, same as S1 - or was this intentional?
That take one to a new place,
Some of life's issues to face.

There, nervously awaiting,
Even anticipating
Interpretations anew, nice choice of words to demonstrate a change of mood
Displaying another view.

With time, insights come and go,
Leading one again to know
That process is nature's way,
Evolving each day by day. a thought seems unfinished here, but i like what you're going for

this poem had a 'breath of fresh air' feel that i really enjoyed. i felt that my lungs became more open as the poem progressed, and i felt a decreased level of anxiety perhaps from the standpoint of whomever is writing the poem. i wasn't a fan of the repeated words, it just felt cluttered. aside from the unfinished thought at the end, i enjoyed the writing overall.

[ellajam]

Hi, Larry I think you've got a good start here: An idea you want to express (although you could use a stronger metaphor, maybe if the autumn leaves lines made a bit more sense), you've got a strong attempt at meter (Leanne has some great threads on meter). While the rhyme scheme is consistent aside from S2, the rhymes are on the simple side, although I like waiting/ anticipating for the similarity of meaning. If you're interested in writing with rhyme you might want to take a look at a site like Rhyme Zone, fun to scan searching for more complex rhymes that suit your chosen meter. Also, take a look at our practice threads, you'll find some posts by our more experienced members that do some amazing things with rhyme.

I've put some notes below, I hope they help, and I hope you post the finished product (Misc. would be the forum for it), I'd love to see it.

In a Fall

As leaves flutter to the ground,
Some might wonder what they've found
In a life filled with wonder,
Sunshine, rain, wind, and thunder.
Colon after wonder although the list is a bit boring. On the metaphor: No, I don't wonder what autumn leaves find, I know they find decay, though my answer doesn't seem to be what you're after.

Change does arrive in the fall,
May also in falls from grace
That take one to a new place,
Some of life's issues to face.
Here I run into trouble with your capitalization of every line. is it May or may, either way I can't make sense of that line, I can't put together "may also in".

I don't mind the change in rhyme scheme but the "fall" is left just hanging out there. Maybe if you had completed a rhyme for it in the first line of S4, or somewhere else, you could get away with it (though others may disagree) but as is it just seems like an overlooked error.

There, nervously awaiting,
Even anticipating
Interpretations anew,
Displaying another view.
I'm no expert but you may be missing an object here. Something seems incomplete.

With time, insights come and go,
Leading one again to know
That process is nature's way,
Evolving each day by day.
So this is a clear summation, but on the whole the piece seems to be telling me what I already know in not a particularly novel way. I think you could dig deeper, pinpoint your metaphor and run with it, say what you're aiming at in images that point the way.

There's a link on our home page to an amusing and informative read, Poetry Tips by Colin Ward. If you haven't read it yet give it a try. The effort you've put into this is clear, it's possible you can take it further.

[Larry B.]

WOW, everybody, I'm so happy about all the feedback I've received. I really didn't expect all that, but I'm very honored to have received it. I haven't read everything yet, in detail, but on skimming over the responses, I see many, many good tips, and I so appreciate all the links that pertain specifically to issues that I've raised. Those will really get me off to a good start in trying to figure out what this poetry mumbo jumbo (lol) is all about. And I can more than fully see that this is the place to be to advance my journey, leading me to my goal to out-Shakespeare Shakespeare -- (yeah, right, I hear you all think ... lol).

I'm sorry I haven't responded sooner, but I have been totally swamped the last two days. But in my thinking in the meantime, I now know that I want to revise my simple poem to make it the best that I'm capable of, at this stage in my development. And, in the future, I want to make learning poetry a much higher priority in my life. Also, I know that I won't have the poem done before Christmas, but that won't be a problem. So far, it's clear to me that I need a transition between the real-life falling leaves in fall, a cycle in nature, to the more-abstract concept of emotional ups and downs in one's life, cycles in one's personal growth. And I want to make it more metaphorically poetic, instead of so boringly didactic, as it now is. I'm going to stick with this poem and revise it slowly over time, as I learn more "tricks of the trade." They say you can't beat a dead horse, but this poem will be an exception to that rule, as I raise that critter from the dead!

I don't know when I'll make my next post to show the latest edit of the poem, because I first have to learn so much more about poetry fundamentals. I think first I'll try to respond to the comments that each of you made, and I'll probably have some more questions. That will be after Christmas, in all probability. And then, I'll tackle the poem again, after a lot of studying.

Thanks again, everyone, and Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, or whatever blah blah rocks your boat.

Sincerely,
Larry B.

[TSlate]

In a Fall

As leaves flutter to the ground,
Some might wonder what they've found
In a life filled with wonder,
Sunshine, rain, wind, and thunder.

Change does arrive in the fall,
May also in falls from grace I don't understand this line, mostly because of the 'in' before 'falls.'
That take one to a new place, 
Some of life's issues to face. This stanza is awkward to me because I expect a complete sentence.

There, nervously awaiting, 'Awaiting' makes me think, 'awaiting what?' Perhaps 'waiting' would be better.
Even anticipating
Interpretations anew,
Displaying another view.

With time, insights come and go,
Leading one again to know
That process is nature's way, 
Evolving each day by day.

Larry B. ... ...  ... thanks, all !!!

[Jeremiahcp]

I am a total poetry novice. I haven't had time to do much reading and studying on this great site, but I want to make it a much higher priority in the future.

This is really what I consider to be my first poem, and by that I mean that I revised it a number of times over the last couple of months when I had the time and inclination to work on it again, instead of what I usually do, just throw down a bunch of verbiage and then move on to something else. This is a very, very simple poem that I'm making for a very dear, close friend, so, in that regard, it's more than adequate, because she will have a reference point from which to evaluate it. And I can fill in the blanks in discussing it with her, if necessary. I plan to make an 11"x14" digital photo print containing the poem and a graphic image I'm making, and give it to her as a Christmas gift.

I'd love any feedback that I can get from anyone, because I want to get ideas to make the poem the best that it can be, with the rather simplistic message that it contains. I have personal reasons to make it four stanzas with four lines in each stanza, to make it compatible with a poem my friend made for me earlier this year. I'd very much appreciate feedback from ellajam -- for the sweet, feminine input -- and from tectak -- who I hope rips it to shreads, if he feels it's appropriate, because I want to improve it -- and from anyone else who wishes to give his or her impressions.

Well, that's about it, and here's my little ditty:

In a Fall

As leaves flutter to the ground,
Some might wonder what they've found
In a life filled with wonder,
Sunshine, rain, wind, and thunder.

Change does arrive in the fall,
May also in falls from grace
That take one to a new place,
Some of life's issues to face.

There, nervously awaiting,
Even anticipating
Interpretations anew,
Displaying another view.

With time, insights come and go,
Leading one again to know
That process is nature's way,
Evolving each day by day.

Larry B. ... ...  ... thanks, all !!!

"Some might wonder what they've found"

I feel you could just use the word they and drop the contraction. 

I think you can chop most the poem, like all of it expect the first stanza.

"As leaves flutter to the ground,
Some might wonder what they've found
In a life filled with wonder,
Sunshine, rain, wind, and thunder."

I think this part here is great,  and I think this the poem, and the rest just extra unneeded filling. This part does it all: it has a concept that it is conveyed with imaginary while using rhythm. I think that you have a good poem here, but you overwritten it just a bit.