Oh, the Irony

[BJ_Murphy]

Oh, the Irony

Rain
Such a transcendental being,
Pounding its existence on the blanketed street dwellers.
Glazing eyes that mirror each splash,
Resonating minds of our gloomy past,
A past so sad that it comes in gaps,
Gaps that are now filled with each rain splash.
Toxins, although not toxic,
That invade our minds like they invade our boxes,
Lying there on the surface, reflecting their sad faces.
Faces that only know pain and gentrification,
While hot sun beach dwellers are all on vacation.
Irony
Oh, the irony

[rowens]

What's ironic? Nothing? Or that the beach dwellers are on vacation somewhere else? A transcendental being pounding its existence on blanketed street dwellers is all right. Maybe they don't like the rain's wet, it's transcendent where the ocean isn't. The beach dwellers anyway. The sun beach dwellers. Why is the rain transcendent? Transcendental Rain, do you like the sound of that and see something in the idea?

A past so sad it comes in gaps. Each rain splash. Toxins, but not toxic, invade our boxes. Sad faces.
Sad faces. Sad faces. Only pain. Invading our minds. Reflecting their sad faces.

[Wjames]

I'm having trouble with this one. I think it would be ironic if it were a beautiful sunny day in the depressing city, and raining at the relaxing beach.

[Erthona]

BJM,

I get that these homeless people/winos live in cardboard boxes which melt in the rain and that is juxtaposed to rainless beaches that people leave, that it could be ironic. It could be ironic because the beach dwellers give up the sunny beach to go on vacation, probably in New York, where it is raining on these cardboard houses. It could be ironic that rain is toxic for someone living in a cardboard box. The problem for me is that irony does not necessarily translate into something significant simply because it is ironic. Irony can not be it's own end, anymore than metaphor, or rhyme.

I don't know if it makes much sense to say that they have been displaced by others, as that is not generally the cause of their plight. You could have said that about hobos during the great depression, but not in this instance. There is a high level of ambiguity in the statement:

"reflecting their sad faces"

It was only the fourth read I realized that the raindrops reflected the sad face of the person in the "box", not that the raindrop had a sad face. I think this level of ambiguity permeates the entire poem. It begins with "blanketed street dwellers" who become people living in boxes without any transition. A blanketed street dweller could be the same as someone who lives in a cardboard box, but they are not synonymous, so initially it gives the impression that the speaker is talking about two separate groups of people.As this is mild critique, I should probably end here.

Dale

[LorettaYoung]

Oh, the Irony

Rain
Such a transcendental being,
Pounding its existence on the blanketed street dwellers.
Glazing eyes that mirror each splash,
Resonating minds of our gloomy past,
A past so sad that it comes in gaps,
Gaps that are now filled with each rain splash.
Toxins, although not toxic,
That invade our minds like they invade our boxes,
Lying there on the surface, reflecting their sad faces.
Faces that only know pain and gentrification,
While hot sun beach dwellers are all on vacation.
Irony
Oh, the irony

---

Hi BJ: While I appreciate your effort: I do not see rain as a being, and how can toxins be sad faces, and what does gentrification have to do with anything? I can only help by suggesting you stick to a subject rather than inserting words you think sound poetic. Good luck, Best Loretta

[BJ_Murphy]

I'm sorry, but is this a forum for poets or for people who prefer exact words for exact topics without any sense of poetic imagination? I'm a political activist who's fought for the low-income neighborhoods who are constantly attacked by wealthy businessmen and banks, threatening to throw them onto the streets without a home. This is gentrification - the replacing of urban low-income homes for wealthy families.

And this complaining of ambiguity - what!? When did ambiguity become a no-no for poetry? When did providing poems which can be translated to any specific person with enough imagination become a problem for poetry readers? When I read poetry, I'm not looking for poems which I know I agree with; I look for poetry which is creative and stylish and has the ability to speak many stories at once to different readers.

It's honestly sad to see poetry go down the drain by people who necessitate bluntness over imaginative poetic discourse.

[milo]

I'm sorry, but is this a forum for poets or for people who prefer exact words for exact topics without any sense of poetic imagination? I'm a political activist who's fought for the low-income neighborhoods who are constantly attacked by wealthy businessmen and banks, threatening to throw them onto the streets without a home. This is gentrification - the replacing of urban low-income homes for wealthy families.

And this complaining of ambiguity - what!? When did ambiguity become a no-no for poetry? When did providing poems which can be translated to any specific person with enough imagination become a problem for poetry readers? When I read poetry, I'm not looking for poems which I know I agree with; I look for poetry which is creative and stylish and has the ability to speak many stories at once to different readers.

It's honestly sad to see poetry go down the drain by people who necessitate bluntness over imaginative poetic discourse.

this is not an appropriate response to critique. Each comment is an individual response to your poem. It is a gift to do with what you will and the correct response is "thank you for taking the time."

/mod

[LorettaYoung]

BJ: I understand your point, myself having heard to be too abstract. I read your other poems and enjoyed them. This poem is just too abstract to be understandable to most people. You have relevant issues that should be known, and shared; but I think you could do it in a better way and not loose the imagination. Best Loretta

[Erthona]

Re: ambiguity. As with any trope, ambiguity can be put to good or poor purpose. Nathaniel Hawthorne uses it to excellent purpose in "Young Goodman Brown". When ambiguity is used so that the possible answers move past a certain level, the writing begins to become senseless. When a phrase can mean anything, it means nothing. When ambiguity is used purposefully and well it restricts the choice of the reader to one of two choices, such as it was a dream, or it was real. If for instance there are three phrases in a poem that are ambiguous, and each phrase could be interpreted as any one of five different possibilities, then there becomes the possibility of 125 different combinations; the higher the possible combinations, the higher the amount of meaninglessness. Generally the source of a high amount of ambiguity is the writer assuming that the reader knows everything he knows. When the level of ambiguity becomes too high, the reader is presented with too many choices and becomes overwhelmed, finding that the writing is simply not worth the effort to decipher, or that it can not be deciphered. Either way, little to no information is conveyed from the writer, to the reader, and one has to ask the question, "Why write at all?" If one person among many comments that they do not understand all or part of what you are saying, it can generally be ignored and the assumption made that person has too small amount of intelligence to comprehend what has been written. If two people comment about the lack of clarity, then one must seriously consider the possibility of a problem that exists with the writing. If all who comment point to a lack of clarity, or meaning as is the case here, then one can no longer hide behind the excuse of dumb reader, and must admit (or fall upon the choice of being willfully ignorant), that there is a problem with the poem and not the readers. I see nowhere in the comments that anybody was expressing anything more than sincere confusion as regards the poem. If however, you are looking for people who will only praise your work and never offer serious criticism, then there are plenty of vanity web sites available to suit ones purpose. If you like I can tell you of one site where they let you remove any comments you dislike, if you could do that here, you would have no comments...

An excellent way of discouraging people from giving honest comment, and thus a real valuation of the poem is to attack anyone who gives you a comment you dislike. Any decent poet welcomes joyously anyone who will to point out flaws in his work as he understands that although often painful, it is the only way we will improve as writers.

from-Giving Critique and Feedback.


"Everything I write is perfect, straight from the heart and editing will only destroy my artistic integrity:
The Pig Pen is not the site for you. Do keep in touch, we’re always impressed by true, effortless genius. Can’t wait to hear how you’ve single-handedly revolutionized the world of poetry."

Dale

[nicksherman]

I don't think it's a bad poem, but I did get a bit lost in the middle when it goes into gaps and toxins and such. It may be trying to get a little too deep.

There are some strong lines, for instance "That invade our minds like they invade our boxes, Lying there on the surface, reflecting their sad faces." I thought this part was well written and created some strong imagery.

If it were me I'd add to the ending as well. Maybe along these lines (keep in mind I realize this doesn't rhyme):

While hot sun beach dwellers are all on vacation.
Worried they may have left the windows down
In their Mercedes.

I think something along these lines would show how petty the rich folks' problems are compared to the homeless. It may add another layer to the poem. But, it's your poem, so do what you wish. Best of luck.

[gernseeker]

Oh, the Irony

Rain
Such a transcendental being,
Pounding its existence on the blanketed street dwellers.
Glazing eyes that mirror each splash,
Resonating minds of our gloomy past,
A past so sad that it comes in gaps,
Gaps that are now filled with each rain splash.
Toxins, although not toxic,
That invade our minds like they invade our boxes,
Lying there on the surface, reflecting their sad faces.
Faces that only know pain and gentrification,
While hot sun beach dwellers are all on vacation.
Irony
Oh, the irony

BJ - love the effort.

I am having trouble with rain as a transcendental being - but if I'm buying that I'm not sure what it has to do with the rest of the poem. Maybe rework that line to help develop your point. I'm distracted by transcendental - it's just too big to ignore.

You illuminate the plight of the homeless well - voices too often silenced. Thanks.

[KROD]

Oh, the Irony

Rain
Such a transcendental being,
Pounding its existence on the blanketed street dwellers.
Glazing eyes that mirror each splash,
Resonating minds of our gloomy past,
A past so sad that it comes in gaps,
Gaps that are now filled with each rain splash.
Toxins, although not toxic,
That invade our minds like they invade our boxes,
Lying there on the surface, reflecting their sad faces.
Faces that only know pain and gentrification,
While hot sun beach dwellers are all on vacation.
Irony
Oh, the irony

I think I know where you were going with this poem. I see the "toxins" as the way people view the homeless and their plight. How they are living on the streets, eating from scraps from trash or the floor while at the same locations you have individuals whose main concern is to get the proper shade on their skin. And yes some of these individuals, not all, have this "toxic" way of thinking. Anyway, that's what I got from it. I have to read this more to see if I have any suggestions,lol

[billy]

we have a poetry discussion board and a pigs arse for poetic discourse., these are the workshop forums and require honest though not cruel feedback.

i have to agree that there is some ambiguity in the poem and ambiguity of itself can work and be a good thing, i'm not sure it works well enough here. i do see the irony though having it mentioned three times waters any irony down quite a lot. it ends up telling us there's irony instead of letting the poem show us the beast of irony in person. the poem starts with the word rain; why? isn't it a given throughout the poem that the splashes are rain?
for me the poem has little depth and scratches the surface of homelessness. the rain isn't doing the job i think you intended for it
what are glazing eyes, would glazed eyes work better? in general the poem has a mundanity about it that weakens what could be a strong subject

thanks for the read.

I'm sorry, but is this a forum for poets or for people who prefer exact words for exact topics without any sense of poetic imagination? I'm a political activist who's fought for the low-income neighborhoods who are constantly attacked by wealthy businessmen and banks, threatening to throw them onto the streets without a home. This is gentrification - the replacing of urban low-income homes for wealthy families.

And this complaining of ambiguity - what!? When did ambiguity become a no-no for poetry? When did providing poems which can be translated to any specific person with enough imagination become a problem for poetry readers? When I read poetry, I'm not looking for poems which I know I agree with; I look for poetry which is creative and stylish and has the ability to speak many stories at once to different readers.

It's honestly sad to see poetry go down the drain by people who necessitate bluntness over imaginative poetic discourse.