Babbling Old Fool

[Thoughtjotter]

Are there no disciples of the babbling old fool,
with the erudition of an accredited school?
Self assured of his intellectual mind,
why are these believers so hard to find?

His profound thoughts could not be kept to himself,
should such brilliance gather dust on the shelf?
He babbles aloud to anyone within range,
any marvelous phrase that he could arrange.

Never demanding to be understood,
Sharing his gift could only be good.
Those who know him can always expect,
There is no subject in which he can not reflect.

[tectak]

Are there no disciples of the babbling old fool,A jaunty but enigmatic opener. Always good start with a secret...who he? Will we find out? We shall see.
with the erudition of an accredited school? Slight disconnect as I am uncertain, though you may say this is pedantic, to whom your refer...the disciples or the BOF. Is it possible that the BOF is erudite? Seems unreasonable. Or are you asking for disciples with accreditation? Then why? Hmmm.
Self assured of his intellectual mind, Aren't we all so blessed? Did you mean intellectual or academic?
why are these believers so hard to find? Why are they believers. You are ahead of your reader. What are you struggling to say? It is now unclear, clearly

His profound thoughts could not be kept to himself, Why? But semicolon here regardless.
should such brilliance gather dust on the shelf?metaphorically buggered up...and cliched to boot. Not a good line. It is wanting.
He babbles aloud to anyone within range, Six inches too long. Meter muxed ip. One too many babbles
any marvelous phrase that he could arrange. Because you chose the form you are stuttering out his, he, him's in laborious and frankly unavoidable procession. There is no quick cure.

Never demanding to be understood,
Sharing his gift could only be good.
Those who know him can always expect,
There is no subject in which he can not reflect. This last stanza is pointlessly added on. It simply wanders about repeating what has already been said whilst actually it is too embarrassed to ask where the exit is. I can tell you. Straight on at the end of the previous stanza. Oh, who he?

I can see some pique in this but for the life of me I cannot see purpose. It just says "There goes a smart arse and nobody likes him". Is that it? Needs more rage and more reason for rage. It comes across as a littany against an unnamed competitor or genre. You do stick largely with the meter and that is refreshing, but as often is the case you then do not put in the effort needed to avoid simplistic forced rhymes. One last point, and I should ask this more often...why do you randomly capitalise new lines?
Best,
tectak

[Erthona]

Hey thanks, a poem for me. Not metered, but I'll take accentual verse any day. "There is no subject in which he can not reflect." Well that's not true,. most of the sciences I have little knowledge of, I'm not really up on the Egyptian civilization.

His profound thoughts could not be kept to himself,
should such brilliance gather dust on the shelf?

Well probably, but you get what you pay for. Brilliance I take exception to, genius, visionary, or per-cognitive I can go with. I do love so much those who criticize one for having an education as being the a brainless babbler, and in the same breath want to know why you don't know more, or are more accurate in what they say.

Anyway, to the poem. A four foot line (provisionally), ending in rhyming couplets. The rhymes seem unforced, "range" and "arrange" shows cleverness if not imagination.

Line five is tad long.

In line six if one reads "should" as unstressed (as is usual), then the line is short one stress.

As to the content, the tone is slightly strident. Generally it is better to strive for an even handed approach, so the piece does not devolve into a rant, or worse yet preaching. To do so undercuts your credibility with your readers, making you seem more like what you are trying to impune than the thing itself.


In line two, I think a better word choice would be refinement, or even cultivation instead of erudition, as it gives it a satirical bite. I am assuming that satire is what you are going for. Since good satire can generally be read two ways, straight, and of course satirical, it has that keen edge to it that keeps anyone from accusing the writer of attacking another. This shows its hand somewhat, so maybe more sarcasm than satire. I would suggest you lean more to the satirical, as sarcasm is, on the whole, crude and inelegant, and such will general not bring any to your side who are not already there. Yes, the sharp stinging blade from behind hurts much more than the battering ram from in front, as it makes the person feel the fool for being taken unawares. Well must stop now, need to go take my pills for babbling, crankiness, idiocy, and ...what's that last one...oh yes, forgetfulness


Best


dale

[Thoughtjotter]

Are there no disciples of the babbling old fool,A jaunty but enigmatic opener. Always good start with a secret...who he? Will we find out? We shall see.
with the erudition of an accredited school? Slight disconnect as I am uncertain, though you may say this is pedantic, to whom your refer...the disciples or the BOF. Is it possible that the BOF is erudite? Seems unreasonable. Or are you asking for disciples with accreditation? Then why? Hmmm.
Self assured of his intellectual mind, Aren't we all so blessed? Did you mean intellectual or academic?
why are these believers so hard to find? Why are they believers. You are ahead of your reader. What are you struggling to say? It is now unclear, clearly

His profound thoughts could not be kept to himself, Why? But semicolon here regardless.
should such brilliance gather dust on the shelf?metaphorically buggered up...and cliched to boot. Not a good line. It is wanting.
He babbles aloud to anyone within range, Six inches too long. Meter muxed ip. One too many babbles
any marvelous phrase that he could arrange. Because you chose the form you are stuttering out his, he, him's in laborious and frankly unavoidable procession. There is no quick cure.

Never demanding to be understood,
Sharing his gift could only be good.
Those who know him can always expect,
There is no subject in which he can not reflect. This last stanza is pointlessly added on. It simply wanders about repeating what has already been said whilst actually it is too embarrassed to ask where the exit is. I can tell you. Straight on at the end of the previous stanza. Oh, who he?

I can see some pique in this but for the life of me I cannot see purpose. It just says "There goes a smart arse and nobody likes him". Is that it? Needs more rage and more reason for rage. It comes across as a littany against an unnamed competitor or genre. You do stick largely with the meter and that is refreshing, but as often is the case you then do not put in the effort needed to avoid simplistic forced rhymes. One last point, and I should ask this more often...why do you randomly capitalise new lines?
Best,
tectak

The BOF has much to learn. This was a sarcastic write to himself one evening after his attempt to read his latest masterpiece to family members. By the time he had cleared his throat the room had cleared and The BOF was all alone. Now, here he sits, eager to learn and very appreciative for every bit of profound erudition(found this word by accident) offered by all of you. As far as the punctuation, Capitalization and the rest is concerned, I need all the help I can get.
I will begin with an edit from your feedback, at least to the point of my limited dust covered brilliance allows.
Thank You,
R.T.

---

Hey thanks, a poem for me. Not metered, but I'll take accentual verse any day. "There is no subject in which he can not reflect." Well that's not true,. most of the sciences I have little knowledge of, I'm not really up on the Egyptian civilization.

His profound thoughts could not be kept to himself,
should such brilliance gather dust on the shelf?

Well probably, but you get what you pay for. Brilliance I take exception to, genius, visionary, or per-cognitive I can go with. I do love so much those who criticize one for having an education as being the a brainless babbler, and in the same breath want to know why you don't know more, or are more accurate in what they say.

Anyway, to the poem. A four foot line (provisionally), ending in rhyming couplets. The rhymes seem unforced, "range" and "arrange" shows cleverness if not imagination.

Line five is tad long.

In line six if one reads "should" as unstressed (as is usual), then the line is short one stress.

As to the content, the tone is slightly strident. Generally it is better to strive for an even handed approach, so the piece does not devolve into a rant, or worse yet preaching. To do so undercuts your credibility with your readers, making you seem more like what you are trying to impune than the thing itself.


In line two, I think a better word choice would be refinement, or even cultivation instead of erudition, as it gives it a satirical bite. I am assuming that satire is what you are going for. Since good satire can generally be read two ways, straight, and of course satirical, it has that keen edge to it that keeps anyone from accusing the writer of attacking another. This shows its hand somewhat, so maybe more sarcasm than satire. I would suggest you lean more to the satirical, as sarcasm is, on the whole, crude and inelegant, and such will general not bring any to your side who are not already there. Yes, the sharp stinging blade from behind hurts much more than the battering ram from in front, as it makes the person feel the fool for being taken unawares. Well must stop now, need to go take my pills for babbling, crankiness, idiocy, and ...what's that last one...oh yes, forgetfulness


Best


dale

Thank You Sir, for your time and knowledge. I will make every effort to replace sarcasm with satire. I have no idea why I am attracted to this form of writing other than the fun.
Looking forward to many more educational moments,
Thanks again,
R.T.

[Erthona]

Probably because it is fun. It is great to get to vent ones spleen, to spew self-righteous anger at whatever target. That's normal and very human. However, it is not very effective if you are trying to convince an audience of something.

Best,

Dale

[Thoughtjotter]

Probably because it is fun. It is great to get to vent ones spleen, to spew self-righteous anger at whatever target. That's normal and very human. However, it is not very effective if you are trying to convince an audience of something.

Best,

Dale

Babbling Old Fool (revision #1)

No ears to hear the babbling old fool,
self taught from his private well-read school.
Someone should embrace each humble word,
to miss any chance would be so absurd.

Speaking aloud to all those in range,
any marvelous phrase he may arange.
Hoping to share to all who would see,
this infinite wisdom offered for free.

Freedom to speak has always been good,
never needing to be understood.
Though on occation he might expect,
babbling old fools get a little respect.

Poetry is much harder than thought jotting.
Hope this is "more better" if not, I'll do it till I get it right.
As this may or might be an ongoing situation for the BOF, I'm not sure when to use may(present) or might(past)

---

Hey thanks, a poem for me. Not metered, but I'll take accentual verse any day. "There is no subject in which he can not reflect." Well that's not true,. most of the sciences I have little knowledge of, I'm not really up on the Egyptian civilization.

His profound thoughts could not be kept to himself,
should such brilliance gather dust on the shelf?

Well probably, but you get what you pay for. Brilliance I take exception to, genius, visionary, or per-cognitive I can go with. I do love so much those who criticize one for having an education as being the a brainless babbler, and in the same breath want to know why you don't know more, or are more accurate in what they say.

Anyway, to the poem. A four foot line (provisionally), ending in rhyming couplets. The rhymes seem unforced, "range" and "arrange" shows cleverness if not imagination.

Line five is tad long.

In line six if one reads "should" as unstressed (as is usual), then the line is short one stress.

As to the content, the tone is slightly strident. Generally it is better to strive for an even handed approach, so the piece does not devolve into a rant, or worse yet preaching. To do so undercuts your credibility with your readers, making you seem more like what you are trying to impune than the thing itself.


In line two, I think a better word choice would be refinement, or even cultivation instead of erudition, as it gives it a satirical bite. I am assuming that satire is what you are going for. Since good satire can generally be read two ways, straight, and of course satirical, it has that keen edge to it that keeps anyone from accusing the writer of attacking another. This shows its hand somewhat, so maybe more sarcasm than satire. I would suggest you lean more to the satirical, as sarcasm is, on the whole, crude and inelegant, and such will general not bring any to your side who are not already there. Yes, the sharp stinging blade from behind hurts much more than the battering ram from in front, as it makes the person feel the fool for being taken unawares. Well must stop now, need to go take my pills for babbling, crankiness, idiocy, and ...what's that last one...oh yes, forgetfulness


Best


dale

Babbling Old Fool (revision #1)

No ears to hear the babbling old fool,
self taught from his private well-read school.
Someone should embrace each humble word,
to miss any chance would be so absurd.

Speaking aloud to all those in range,
any marvelous phrase he may arrange.
Hoping to share to all who would see,
this infinite wisdom offered for free.

Freedom to speak has always been good,
never needing to be understood.
Though on occasion he might expect,
babbling old fools get a little respect.

Poetry is much harder than thought jotting.
Hope this is "more better" if not, I'll do it till I get it right.
As this may or might be an ongoing situation for the BOF, I'm not sure when to use may(present) or might(past)

[Erthona]

That's more even handed. I like the first two phrases, but I think I would switch out this 3rd stanza one for the new. That last line turns the knife very well.



"Never demanding to be understood,
Sharing his gift could only be good.
Those who know him can always expect,
There is no subject in which he can not reflect."


Dale

[crow]

I agree largely with thoughtjotter, with one exception. But first I'll sneak in a copyedit . . .

Babbling Old Fool
Are there no disciples of the babbling old fool,
with the erudition of an accredited school?
[quick note: the preceding line could be collapsed by "erudite" instead of "with the erudition"]
Self[-]assured of his intellectual mind,
["intellectual" is probably the default understanding of "mind," so possibly redundant . . .]
why are these believers so hard [for him] to find?

His profound thoughts could not be kept to himself,
should such brilliance gather dust on the shelf?
He babbles aloud to anyone within range,
any marvelous phrase that he could arrange.
--here's where I disagree with thoughtblotter. A lot of these pronouns can just be kicked, w no loss to meaning, as in:

profound thoughts could not be kept,
should such brilliance gather dust on the shelf?
Babbles range to
any marvelous arrangement;
Never demanding to be understood,
Sharing his gift could only be good.
Those who know him can always expect
[in the line above you've got a goofer. The word "that" is often "supplied" in English. When the omitted "that" falls into a caesura, the native instinct is to throw a comma in. It should be omitted.]
There is no subject in which he can not reflect.

[Thoughtjotter]

I agree largely with thoughtjotter, with one exception. But first I'll sneak in a copyedit . . .

Babbling Old Fool
Are there no disciples of the babbling old fool,
with the erudition of an accredited school?
[quick note: the preceding line could be collapsed by "erudite" instead of "with the erudition"]
Self[-]assured of his intellectual mind,
["intellectual" is probably the default understanding of "mind," so possibly redundant . . .]
why are these believers so hard [for him] to find?

His profound thoughts could not be kept to himself,
should such brilliance gather dust on the shelf?
He babbles aloud to anyone within range,
any marvelous phrase that he could arrange.
--here's where I disagree with thoughtblotter. A lot of these pronouns can just be kicked, w no loss to meaning, as in:

profound thoughts could not be kept,
should such brilliance gather dust on the shelf?
Babbles range to
any marvelous arrangement;
Never demanding to be understood,
Sharing his gift could only be good.
Those who know him can always expect
[in the line above you've got a goofer. The word "that" is often "supplied" in English. When the omitted "that" falls into a caesura, the native instinct is to throw a comma in. It should be omitted.]
There is no subject in which he can not reflect.

Thank You for your feedback, there is much for me to learn.
I may have jumped the gun on my 1st. revision but as I mentioned above, I have a lot to learn.
Babbling Old Fool (revision #1)

No ears to hear the babbling old fool,
self taught from his private well-read school.
Someone should embrace each humble word,
to miss any chance would be so absurd.

Speaking aloud to all those in range,
any marvelous phrase he may arrange.
Hoping to share to all who would see,
this infinite wisdom offered for free.

Freedom to speak has always been good,
never needing to be understood.
Though on occasion he might expect,
babbling old fools get a little respect.

Poetry is much harder than thought jotting.
Hope this is "more better" if not, I'll do it till I get it right.
As this may or might be an ongoing situation for the BOF, I'm not sure when to use may(present) or might(past)

[crow]

Post your revision as a new post, I think is protocol

[milo]

Post your revision as a new post, I think is protocol

No, it's not. If you look at the very first post in the forum
http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/announcements.php?aid=27
The instructions are there.

[Thoughtjotter]

That's more even handed. I like the first two phrases, but I think I would switch out this 3rd stanza one for the new. That last line turns the knife very well.



"Never demanding to be understood,
Sharing his gift could only be good.
Those who know him can always expect,
There is no subject in which he can not reflect."


Dale

are you saying I need to put this original stanza #3 with the revision and can the revised stanza #3?
Yes, and maybe change the "can" to "will" in the last line to make it more probable?

---

Post your revision as a new post, I think is protocol

No, it's not. If you look at the very first post in the forum
http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/announcements.php?aid=27
The instructions are there.

Sorry about the confusion, an inborn talent of mine. I need to study the guidelines more closely more often. My study habits are closely related to the osmosis process.

[jdvanwijk]

Hello Thoughtjotter,

I liked the thought of the poem; sometimes these "babbling old fools" do seem to possess some kind of higher wisdom, and I think you struck a pretty good balance between irony and empathy. I do think there are still some problems with your poem, though; biggest problem for me is that you sometimes seem to force meaning for the sake of rhyme.

Are there no disciples of the babbling old fool, Good first line, I enjoyed the playful irony of "disciples of the babbling old fool".
with the erudition of an accredited school?You're saying here that a school can be erudite, which sounds a bit off to me.
Self assured of his intellectual mind,I think you could propably find a more interesting adjective than "intellectual", maybe try to find someting unexpected?
why are these believers so hard to find?

His profound thoughts could not be kept to himself,Maybe use present tense here? Also "profound" feels a bit rote.
should such brilliance gather dust on the shelf?"Collect dust on the shelf" feels clichéd, and mainly chosen for the rhyme.
He babbles aloud to anyone within range,Maybe try to find a different verb to add some more color, you already have the babbling.
any marvelous phrase that he could arrange.range/arrange is a poor rhyme. Also "marvelous" doesn't feel like an inspired adjective.

The last verse, the "punchline", feels weak to me. I would try to think some more about what you want your reader to take away from your poem; right now it seems you're simply restating that he knows a lot (or so he thinks.) Maybe this could be an opportunity to delve a bit deeper in the psychology of the man? Why is he babbling? Does he know that he's babbling? etc.
Never demanding to be understood,
Sharing his gift could only be good.Why is it good? This line reads like filler to get the rhyme.
Those who know him can always expect,
There is no subject in which he can not reflect.This last line feels a beat too long (the preceding three lines are tetrameter and the last one is a pentameter.)

[bena]

Didn't read other crits due to my illness. Forgive if I repeat. Quick comments/



Babbling Old Fool (revision #1)

No ears to hear the babbling old fool,
self taught from his private well-read school.
Someone should embrace each humble word,
to miss any chance would be so absurd.

Speaking aloud to all those in range,
any marvelous phrase he may arrange.
Hoping to share to all who would see,
this infinite wisdom offered for free.

Freedom to speak has always been good,
never needing to be understood.
Though on occasion he might expect,
babbling old fools get a little respect.

Poetry is much harder than thought jotting.
Hope this is "more better" if not, I'll do it till I get it right.
As this may or might be an ongoing situation for the BOF, I'm not sure when to use may(present) or might(past)


WAYYY too much use of the word "babbling" in such a short poem.

End rhymes are sooooooo predictable.

I would give this "babbling fool" a name, or a philosopher (even a sardonic one)


In you comments in the end;
'more better' is Horrible grammar. Plus may (present) and might (past) is wrong, as well. Might had is past, but might is used frequently as present too.


Hope this helps!

[Thoughtjotter]

Didn't read other crits due to my illness. Forgive if I repeat. Quick comments/



Babbling Old Fool (revision #1)

No ears to hear the babbling old fool,
self taught from his private well-read school.
Someone should embrace each humble word,
to miss any chance would be so absurd.

Speaking aloud to all those in range,
any marvelous phrase he may arrange.
Hoping to share to all who would see,
this infinite wisdom offered for free.

Freedom to speak has always been good,
never needing to be understood.
Though on occasion he might expect,
babbling old fools get a little respect.

Poetry is much harder than thought jotting.
Hope this is "more better" if not, I'll do it till I get it right.
As this may or might be an ongoing situation for the BOF, I'm not sure when to use may(present) or might(past)


WAYYY too much use of the word "babbling" in such a short poem.

End rhymes are sooooooo predictable.

I would give this "babbling fool" a name, or a philosopher (even a sardonic one)


In you comments in the end;
'more better' is Horrible grammar. Plus may (present) and might (past) is wrong, as well. Might had is past, but might is used frequently as present too.


Hope this helps!

Please pardon the late reply
Thank you for your feed back, looks as though I have a long way to go, I will go back and re edit.