Ralph's Interview (Revision 2)

[Todd]

Revision

This isn't the first time
you've evacuated children.
Before the bomb, we were safe
inside closets of snowy forest
with our talking lion;
the beast always talks.

We were much the same
as those before.
We collected sea shells, danced
to the heartbeat of the world,
and dreamed of our parents'
tables; for want of Turkish delight...
we ate pig.

~~~
Edits: punctuation after tables, strophe break, and replaced a comma with an ellipses. I generally hate that form of punctuation in poetry and could be pressured to return to the comma, but I think it might be right in this case.

The larger issues raised about parents' tables or heartbeat of the world will require some more thought (I'm slow in that regard)

Thoughts?

Edit R2: lacking Turkish delight idea is pretty brilliant and brings closure to one of the narrative threads. Thank you Leanne. Let's try it out.



Original

This isn't the first time
you've evacuated children.
Before the bomb, we were safe
inside closets of snowy forest
with our talking lion;
the beast always talks.
We were much the same
as those before.
We collected sea shells, danced
to the heartbeat of the world,
and dreamed of our parents'
tables, when hungry,
we ate pig.

[FractalPacifist]

Wow. At the risk of just posting "I like this," the fact remains that I've pretty much got nothing but positive comments for this piece. Love the literary references, love the simplicity. I took a stab at critiquing anyway - I hope it's at least somewhat helpful.

This isn't the first time
you've evacuated children.
Before the bomb, we were safe
inside closets of snowy forest
with our talking lion; love the reference and the jarring (in a good way) switch in the next line.
the beast always talks.
We were much the same
as those before. I feel, content-wise, this sentence is necessary. However, it's the only part I can say sounds a little stilted.
We collected sea shells, danced
to the heartbeat of the world,
and dreamed of our parents'
tables, when hungry, the way this blends into the next line is brilliant.
we ate pig.

[Erthona]

Todd,

I have no idea what the title has to do with the poem, and I feel there is something being alluded to in the last sentence that I am not getting. I am also confused about the chronology in the first part.

"Before the bomb, we were safe..."

What follows is evidently an allusion to Lewis' book "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe". If I remember correctly it was because of the bombing that the children were sent to the country, which is where they discovered the land of Narnia. They were not safe there and then a bomb came. I am assuming you are making some other point which has to do with this Ralph person, but I am at a loss to understand what the connection is, and what you are trying to imply. I do not know if there is a lack in the poem, or if I am just to dense to get the connection. I guess you will have to tell me, for I am currently at a complete loss. I do suspect there is some cynicism related to "talking beats" and eating "pig", otherwise you would have said pork.
In terms of the writing, I generally have no problems, it is smooth, even handed, and reads easily. The only thing that stuck out is that

"the heartbeat of the world"

seems a bit trite, although that could be because of the similarity to the "heartbeat of America" phrase used in Chevy commercials.


Dale

[tectak]

This isn't the first time
you've evacuated children.
Before the bomb, we were safe
inside closets of snowy forest
with our talking lion;
the beast always talks.
We were much the same
as those before.
We collected sea shells, danced
to the heartbeat of the world,
and dreamed of our parents'
tables, when hungry,
we ate pig.

Hi todd,
Google is swamped. Ralph's interview is lost on me. To the poem.
As always, you write for me. I enjoy your surefootedness...it is a an easy journey in a big comfy car with a trusted driver. Bumps? I do not feel them. I look out of the window and have no idea where I am or where you are taking me...and I care not a jot. I am being transported.
This is poetry as I know it...just one misfire for me. The enjambment on "parents'" is just intimidatory "parents' tables" must not be split. Why on earth do it?
I found myself reading:
" ...we dreamed of our parents; and of tables when hungry. We ate pig"
What's it all about? Lions, witches...but where's the wardrobe, Ralph? Do I get the job?
Best,
tectak

[Todd]

I appreciate all the comments, but am running off to work at the moment, so cannot address them individually till later.

One question to throw out to everyone (assuming of course that I have a reason): Do you think a strophe break after L7 "same" would enhance the poem?

I'm wondering if it would cause a layering between line 7 and 6.

Thanks again. I'll be back later to address the critiques. They are all much appreciated.

Best,

Todd

[cidermaid]

I would say yes to the suggestion on the strophe break.
To my read it would clarify. (Assuming i am picking up on the right image - I'm reading Lord of the flies Ralph)

[ChristopherSea]

Todd, A separate stanza would divide the two referenecs and clue in the reader better. We dreamed of our 'parent's table' may still work and read better. I would finish with 'we ate wild boar.' Nice juxtaposition!/Chris

[Leanne]

This isn't the first time
you've evacuated children.
Before the bomb, we were safe
inside closets of snowy forest
with our talking lion;
the beast always talks. -- I think I'd be tempted to break here
We were much the same
as those before.
We collected sea shells, danced
to the heartbeat of the world,
and dreamed of our parents'
tables, when hungry, -- maybe a semi-colon after tables
we ate pig.

The reason I suggest a strophe break is to further highlight the contrast between beasts: Aslan/God versus LOTF/Beelzebub. In both cases, the land itself is the heart, pure until stained by man -- and in both cases, man is the saviour, although I'd hazard a guess that Ralph wouldn't have minded a speedier delivery. There can be no redemption without first having sinned. So much to think about in a little poem that draws in such rich intertext from two of the most powerfully symbolic novels ever written. This makes me happy

[bena]

Allusions of two great stories in one short poem? Are you sure the world can survive the collision?

This is just brilliant. I do agree with Leanne's semicolon as otherwise you'd have splices.

love ya,
mel.

[Todd]

Wow. At the risk of just posting "I like this," the fact remains that I've pretty much got nothing but positive comments for this piece. Love the literary references, love the simplicity. I took a stab at critiquing anyway - I hope it's at least somewhat helpful.

This isn't the first time
you've evacuated children.
Before the bomb, we were safe
inside closets of snowy forest
with our talking lion; love the reference and the jarring (in a good way) switch in the next line.
the beast always talks.
We were much the same
as those before. I feel, content-wise, this sentence is necessary. However, it's the only part I can say sounds a little stilted.
We collected sea shells, danced
to the heartbeat of the world,
and dreamed of our parents'
tables, when hungry, the way this blends into the next line is brilliant.
we ate pig.

Hi Lexi, thank you for your comments. They are much appreciated. I have some ideas that might address that one line you call out. It may be a structural fix, but we'll have to see if that improves it.

Again thank you,

Todd

---

Dale,

First off, I appreciate the thoughtful and detailed comments. Now that others have weighed in on some of the literary references let me address some points you raised below.

The title reference's a fictionalized post rescue interview with Ralph, the main character from "The Lord of the Flies". When I wrote this I was thinking about the common elements between Lewis and his "The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe" and TLotF. In both cases, there was a war and children were sent away. In Narnia, they went to a fantasy realm. In TLotF, they went to what looked like a paradise but it was soon reduced to a savage place.

Pig is a reference to the death of Piggy.

As to the heartbeat line, I'll consider your point. I don't have network TV so any triteness if evident is my own.

Thanks again,

Todd

Todd,

I have no idea what the title has to do with the poem, and I feel there is something being alluded to in the last sentence that I am not getting. I am also confused about the chronology in the first part.

"Before the bomb, we were safe..."

What follows is evidently an allusion to Lewis' book "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe". If I remember correctly it was because of the bombing that the children were sent to the country, which is where they discovered the land of Narnia. They were not safe there and then a bomb came. I am assuming you are making some other point which has to do with this Ralph person, but I am at a loss to understand what the connection is, and what you are trying to imply. I do not know if there is a lack in the poem, or if I am just to dense to get the connection. I guess you will have to tell me, for I am currently at a complete loss. I do suspect there is some cynicism related to "talking beats" and eating "pig", otherwise you would have said pork.
In terms of the writing, I generally have no problems, it is smooth, even handed, and reads easily. The only thing that stuck out is that

"the heartbeat of the world"

seems a bit trite, although that could be because of the similarity to the "heartbeat of America" phrase used in Chevy commercials.


Dale

---

This isn't the first time
you've evacuated children.
Before the bomb, we were safe
inside closets of snowy forest
with our talking lion;
the beast always talks.
We were much the same
as those before.
We collected sea shells, danced
to the heartbeat of the world,
and dreamed of our parents'
tables, when hungry,
we ate pig.

Hi todd,
Google is swamped. Ralph's interview is lost on me. To the poem.
As always, you write for me. I enjoy your surefootedness...it is a an easy journey in a big comfy car with a trusted driver. Bumps? I do not feel them. I look out of the window and have no idea where I am or where you are taking me...and I care not a jot. I am being transported.
This is poetry as I know it...just one misfire for me. The enjambment on "parents'" is just intimidatory "parents' tables" must not be split. Why on earth do it?
I found myself reading:
" ...we dreamed of our parents; and of tables when hungry. We ate pig"
What's it all about? Lions, witches...but where's the wardrobe, Ralph? Do I get the job?
Best,
tectak

Hi Tom, as always I appreciate the comments and the time you spent with the poem. I have a weird thought process which probably does cause those Google searches. I explained above sort of where Ralph comes from in my answer to Dale so I won't be wordy here. As to the line you call out. Here's what I was trying to do (maybe it didn't work well, but let me lay it out):

One of the issues that causes the kids to dip into savagery is a lack of food. Jack's hunters (unmentioned in the poem) provide meat to the children. They value this meet more than Ralph's moral leadership. So when I wrote this set of lines. I wanted Ralph to first say:

and dreamed of our parents

and in the moment of speaking realize that wasn't quite right and amend

and dreamed of our parents'
tables, when hungry,

(Leanne called out the semicolon later which I'll fix but all in good time)

Again not defending the choice just explaining it. I'm just not personally as happy with:

and dreamed of our parents' table;
when hungry,
we ate pig

I have to have the last line on its own line to emphasize the murder of the character Piggy, but am open to other suggestions.

Best,

Todd

---

I would say yes to the suggestion on the strophe break.
To my read it would clarify. (Assuming i am picking up on the right image - I'm reading Lord of the flies Ralph)

Thanks AJ. I appreciate you weighing in. You are reading this correctly. I will do a break in the strophe I think. I'm considering the one Leanne mentioned below, and my original idea.

---

Todd, A separate stanza would divide the two referenecs and clue in the reader better. We dreamed of our 'parent's table' may still work and read better. I would finish with 'we ate wild boar.' Nice juxtaposition!/Chris

Chris, appreciate you comments. That's another yes for strophe break. I'll play around with the parent's table thing. There may be a better way to introduce hesitation, and to hold back from saying the horror of what happened on the island. I can't do wild boar unfortunately though they did eat that only because I'm referencing in a way the murder of Piggy, but I agree that wild boar is what they were eating for the most part.

Thanks again,

Todd

---

This isn't the first time
you've evacuated children.
Before the bomb, we were safe
inside closets of snowy forest
with our talking lion;
the beast always talks. -- I think I'd be tempted to break here
We were much the same
as those before.
We collected sea shells, danced
to the heartbeat of the world,
and dreamed of our parents'
tables, when hungry, -- maybe a semi-colon after tables
we ate pig.

The reason I suggest a strophe break is to further highlight the contrast between beasts: Aslan/God versus LOTF/Beelzebub. In both cases, the land itself is the heart, pure until stained by man -- and in both cases, man is the saviour, although I'd hazard a guess that Ralph wouldn't have minded a speedier delivery. There can be no redemption without first having sinned. So much to think about in a little poem that draws in such rich intertext from two of the most powerfully symbolic novels ever written. This makes me happy

Leanne, I will include the semicolon, and consider the break. I'm glad you enjoyed the mixture of the two allusions. I appreciate your commentary and comments. It made me happy to read your ideas on contrasting the beasts, and I'd often thought about the ideas you raise about the land being pure, and sin's origin in man staining it.

Much appreciated,

Todd

---

Allusions of two great stories in one short poem? Are you sure the world can survive the collision?

This is just brilliant. I do agree with Leanne's semicolon as otherwise you'd have splices.

love ya,
mel.

Hi mel, thank you so much for your comments. I'm glad you enjoyed the poem. I agree the dreaded comma splice is not what I need as I'm moving toward the ending.

Best,

Todd

[ChristopherSea]

Wow. At the risk of just posting "I like this," the fact remains that I've pretty much got nothing but positive comments for this piece. Love the literary references, love the simplicity. I took a stab at critiquing anyway - I hope it's at least somewhat helpful.

This isn't the first time
you've evacuated children.
Before the bomb, we were safe
inside closets of snowy forest
with our talking lion; love the reference and the jarring (in a good way) switch in the next line.
the beast always talks.
We were much the same
as those before. I feel, content-wise, this sentence is necessary. However, it's the only part I can say sounds a little stilted.
We collected sea shells, danced
to the heartbeat of the world,
and dreamed of our parents'
tables, when hungry, the way this blends into the next line is brilliant.
we ate pig.

Hi Lexi, thank you for your comments. They are much appreciated. I have some ideas that might address that one line you call out. It may be a structural fix, but we'll have to see if that improves it.

Again thank you,

Todd

---

Dale,

First off, I appreciate the thoughtful and detailed comments. Now that others have weighed in on some of the literary references let me address some points you raised below.

The title reference's a fictionalized post rescue interview with Ralph, the main character from "The Lord of the Flies". When I wrote this I was thinking about the common elements between Lewis and his "The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe" and TLotF. In both cases, there was a war and children were sent away. In Narnia, they went to a fantasy realm. In TLotF, they went to what looked like a paradise but it was soon reduced to a savage place.

Pig is a reference to the death of Piggy.

As to the heartbeat line, I'll consider your point. I don't have network TV so any triteness if evident is my own.

Thanks again,

Todd

Todd,

I have no idea what the title has to do with the poem, and I feel there is something being alluded to in the last sentence that I am not getting. I am also confused about the chronology in the first part.

"Before the bomb, we were safe..."

What follows is evidently an allusion to Lewis' book "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe". If I remember correctly it was because of the bombing that the children were sent to the country, which is where they discovered the land of Narnia. They were not safe there and then a bomb came. I am assuming you are making some other point which has to do with this Ralph person, but I am at a loss to understand what the connection is, and what you are trying to imply. I do not know if there is a lack in the poem, or if I am just to dense to get the connection. I guess you will have to tell me, for I am currently at a complete loss. I do suspect there is some cynicism related to "talking beats" and eating "pig", otherwise you would have said pork.
In terms of the writing, I generally have no problems, it is smooth, even handed, and reads easily. The only thing that stuck out is that

"the heartbeat of the world"

seems a bit trite, although that could be because of the similarity to the "heartbeat of America" phrase used in Chevy commercials.


Dale

---

This isn't the first time
you've evacuated children.
Before the bomb, we were safe
inside closets of snowy forest
with our talking lion;
the beast always talks.
We were much the same
as those before.
We collected sea shells, danced
to the heartbeat of the world,
and dreamed of our parents'
tables, when hungry,
we ate pig.

Hi todd,
Google is swamped. Ralph's interview is lost on me. To the poem.
As always, you write for me. I enjoy your surefootedness...it is a an easy journey in a big comfy car with a trusted driver. Bumps? I do not feel them. I look out of the window and have no idea where I am or where you are taking me...and I care not a jot. I am being transported.
This is poetry as I know it...just one misfire for me. The enjambment on "parents'" is just intimidatory "parents' tables" must not be split. Why on earth do it?
I found myself reading:
" ...we dreamed of our parents; and of tables when hungry. We ate pig"
What's it all about? Lions, witches...but where's the wardrobe, Ralph? Do I get the job?
Best,
tectak

Hi Tom, as always I appreciate the comments and the time you spent with the poem. I have a weird thought process which probably does cause those Google searches. I explained above sort of where Ralph comes from in my answer to Dale so I won't be wordy here. As to the line you call out. Here's what I was trying to do (maybe it didn't work well, but let me lay it out):

One of the issues that causes the kids to dip into savagery is a lack of food. Jack's hunters (unmentioned in the poem) provide meat to the children. They value this meet more than Ralph's moral leadership. So when I wrote this set of lines. I wanted Ralph to first say:

and dreamed of our parents

and in the moment of speaking realize that wasn't quite right and amend

and dreamed of our parents'
tables, when hungry,

(Leanne called out the semicolon later which I'll fix but all in good time)

Again not defending the choice just explaining it. I'm just not personally as happy with:

and dreamed of our parents' table;
when hungry,
we ate pig

I have to have the last line on its own line to emphasize the murder of the character Piggy, but am open to other suggestions.

Best,

Todd

---

I would say yes to the suggestion on the strophe break.
To my read it would clarify. (Assuming i am picking up on the right image - I'm reading Lord of the flies Ralph)

Thanks AJ. I appreciate you weighing in. You are reading this correctly. I will do a break in the strophe I think. I'm considering the one Leanne mentioned below, and my original idea.

---

Todd, A separate stanza would divide the two referenecs and clue in the reader better. We dreamed of our 'parent's table' may still work and read better. I would finish with 'we ate wild boar.' Nice juxtaposition!/Chris

Chris, appreciate you comments. That's another yes for strophe break. I'll play around with the parent's table thing. There may be a better way to introduce hesitation, and to hold back from saying the horror of what happened on the island. I can't do wild boar unfortunately though they did eat that only because I'm referencing in a way the murder of Piggy, but I agree that wild boar is what they were eating for the most part.

Thanks again,

Todd

---

This isn't the first time
you've evacuated children.
Before the bomb, we were safe
inside closets of snowy forest
with our talking lion;
the beast always talks. -- I think I'd be tempted to break here
We were much the same
as those before.
We collected sea shells, danced
to the heartbeat of the world,
and dreamed of our parents'
tables, when hungry, -- maybe a semi-colon after tables
we ate pig.

The reason I suggest a strophe break is to further highlight the contrast between beasts: Aslan/God versus LOTF/Beelzebub. In both cases, the land itself is the heart, pure until stained by man -- and in both cases, man is the saviour, although I'd hazard a guess that Ralph wouldn't have minded a speedier delivery. There can be no redemption without first having sinned. So much to think about in a little poem that draws in such rich intertext from two of the most powerfully symbolic novels ever written. This makes me happy

Leanne, I will include the semicolon, and consider the break. I'm glad you enjoyed the mixture of the two allusions. I appreciate your commentary and comments. It made me happy to read your ideas on contrasting the beasts, and I'd often thought about the ideas you raise about the land being pure, and sin's origin in man staining it.

Much appreciated,

Todd

---

Allusions of two great stories in one short poem? Are you sure the world can survive the collision?

This is just brilliant. I do agree with Leanne's semicolon as otherwise you'd have splices.

love ya,
mel.

Hi mel, thank you so much for your comments. I'm glad you enjoyed the poem. I agree the dreaded comma splice is not what I need as I'm moving toward the ending.

Best,

Todd

Shoot, I was wondering if that was the death of Piggy or the eating of the boar! I like the 'Life of Pi' aspect of your poem: was it the fantasy story of CS Lewis or the harsh reality of Golding. Of course Ralph would alter the story to protect himself and perhaps his sanity as Pi did in Martel's book. So, I actually saw all three classics herein!

[bena]

For me heartbeat of the world is a very nice phrase, one of my favorites in this work. As far as changing it to "wild boar" instead of pig, don't you dare!!! Think of all the layers you would lose, referencing poor Piggy, and when hungry we are said to "pig out" etc...

I'll try to think of a different way to clarify this allusion.

cheers,
mel.

[Todd]

Mel, I have no intention of changing to wild boar don't worry.

[bena]

OOoh just thought of something you could do with the title to make 2nd half less obscure, without changing anything in the poem itself. Just a suggestion, it may be too telly for you:

Ralph's Interrogation, after Sam and Eric have confessed.

[Todd]

Titles can be more telly. Let me give it some thought.

Thanks

[ChristopherSea]

For me heartbeat of the world is a very nice phrase, one of my favorites in this work. As far as changing it to "wild boar" instead of pig, don't you dare!!! Think of all the layers you would lose, referencing poor Piggy, and when hungry we are said to "pig out" etc...

I'll try to think of a different way to clarify this allusion.

cheers,
mel.

I didn't say to change it, melbena you're a fruity-cake! You misread a lot...

[Leanne]

Please leave "heartbeat of the world" -- the symbolism of the island and the implied drums supports it well. The island did become at once the world, the body and the conscience for the boys.

I had a thought. Instead of (or perhaps as well as) "when hungry", you could possibly say "lacking Turkish delight"... I could be rambling.

[bena]

@Chris....well seems like you've figured me out. I usually misread things to make them sexual, though, lmao.

[ChristopherSea]

@Chris....well seems like you've figured me out. I usually misread things to make them sexual, though, lmao.

still luv ya, maybe...

[Todd]

I chose heartbeat because of the drumming on the island. It will likely stay. I just try to stay open when editing. The turkish delight is inspired Leanne, that or an equivalent might make it in the next revision.

Thanks


~~~

Chris & Mel, I try to encourage relationships...so be free. Everything is the poem is about sex--except when it isn't.