Debt

[ray]

Another go

The saxophones have found her home and slither in,
running riot on the quiet of her body.
There’s an empty ring within the silver tin
and one candle lights the depths of her study
where she’s learning lap dancing and TEFL,
to throw a dart in a far part of the globe
and chase the arrow for some precious metal
while her lips and her legs remain in vogue.

The West has gone down with depression and stress
and we can’t afford the servants any longer.
She’s in a tipsy state and a flimsy dress,
bent over at the wrong end of a conga.
While foreign eyes are leering at our daughters
we’re being treated for Adjustment Disorders.





Revision

The saxophones have found her home and slither in,
running riot on the quiet of her body.
There’s an empty ring within the silver tin
and one candle lights the depths of her study
where she’s learning lap dancing and TEFL,
to throw a dart in a far part of the globe
and chase the arrow for some precious metal
while her lips and her legs remain in vogue.

It’s closing time in the Gardens of The West
and we can’t afford the servants any longer.
She’s in a tipsy state and a flimsy dress,
bent over at the wrong end of a conga;
and as foreign eyes are leering at his daughter
he’s being treated for Adjustment Disorder.

Original


The saxophones have found her home and slither in
to run riot on the quiet of her body.
Forefingers and thumbs stretch a pliant skin,
she grows wet in the depths of her study
where she’s learning lap dancing and TEFL,
to throw a dart in a far part of the globe
and chase an arrow for the precious metal
while her lips and her legs remain in vogue.
It’s closing time in the gardens of the west;
the baton is passed on to feed a hunger.
She’s in a tipsy state and a flimsy dress,
bent over at the wrong end of a conga.
While foreign eyes are leering at his daughter,
he’s in the queue for Adjustment Disorder.

[heslopian]

The saxophones have stolen from the silver tin What silver tin?
and run riot on the quiet of her body. I really like the internal rhyme of "riot" and "quiet", though shouldn't "on" be "in"? "On" makes it sound like she's being beaten with saxophones
Forefingers and thumbs stretch a pliant skin Whose forefingers and thumbs?
and she sweats in the depths of her study This line makes it seem like she's alone, but L13 implies that she's dancing publicly. Unless "study" is figurative and not a literal study (room); if so, then I'd suggest replacing it with "studies".
where she’s learning lap dancing and TEFL, I googled "TEFL" and found "Teaching English as a Foreign Language", which seems like an odd thing to study alongside lap dancing, though I've assumed that she's a student who dances to support herself. Also, should a semi-colon come after "TEFL", as the next sentence clause doesn't naturally follow it?
she’ll throw a dart in a far part of the globe I think I understand this line: she picks an imaginary spot somewhere away from her and dances towards it, giving her dancing rhythm?
and chase an arrow for the precious metal What precious metal?
while her lips and her legs remain in vogue. Good line; very physically evocative in a simple way.
It’s closing time in the gardens of the west; Public gardens, private gardens? Is this a metaphor for nightfall, when people close up their houses and retreat inside?
the baton is passed on to feed a hunger. She's stopped dancing to get herself a meal?
She’s in a tipsy state and a flimsy dress, Good line; I like the syllabically symmetrical move from abstract ("tipsy state") to literal ("flimsy dress").
bent over at the wrong end of a conga. This may be just my dirty mind, but this line sounds like a sex joke.
While foreign eyes are leering at his daughter, Woah woah woah, who's this new character?
he’s in the queue for Adjustment Disorder. So this new, male persona is having trouble adapting to a new environment where his daughter is seen as a sex object?

A lot more clarity is needed here, I think. You have a lot of good lines, some witty, some just evocative, but you leave too much up in the air. Who is the dancing woman, why is she dancing and where? Is she aware that her father is watching her, and why is he there? Do they live together? Is she still in his care? What is the silver tin, and whose forefingers and thumbs are stretching her skin? (I'm writing my own poem here! There, care, tin, skin)
All my critique is, of course, JMHO. Thank you for the read

[milo]

Hello, ray. This almost reads like a sonnet that has had a bad accident with a watermelon truck. I am not sure what your intentions are with it, but if you were interested in writing a sonnet, check out the practice forums as well.

The saxophones have stolen from the silver tin
and run riot on the quiet of her body.

the silver tin is never defined or qualified in the poem in any way so it is just a distraction.

Forefingers and thumbs stretch a pliant skin
and she sweats in the depths of her study
where she’s learning lap dancing and TEFL,

This whole section feels quite wordy and awkward as well as incorrect. It reads like maybe someone is either giving this sweaty girl a massage while she studies or making a lamp shade out of her skin, but it is difficult to tell which.

she’ll throw a dart in a far part of the globe
and chase an arrow for the precious metal
while her lips and her legs remain in vogue.

I think you might mean that she will travel far, but it isn't clear. I can't make anything out of chasing arrows or precious metal. Maybe you are saying that this sweaty girl with the stretchy skin will go where the money is as long as she is attractive? If so, this wording is terribly inefficient and unclear.

It’s closing time in the gardens of the west;
the baton is passed on to feed a hunger.
She’s in a tipsy state and a flimsy dress,
bent over at the wrong end of a conga.

"baton is passed" is cliche. "garden of the west" means nothing to me at all. "feed a hunger" is abstract. I would say telly, but it doesn't really tell anything at all. Has the scene changed since she was studying with her sweaty stretchy skin? It seems now she is drunk, bent over and in a flimsy dress.

While foreign eyes are leering at his daughter,
he’s in the queue for Adjustment Disorder.

where did this second person suddenly come from and what is his relevance to the poem?

There are some severe issues with logic, wording, clarity and shifting scenes in this poem. I would try to strip out all of the excess verviage and say what you want to say first.

[ray]

Thanks, fellas. I'd agree there's much wrong with the poem, mostly the dissonance between the first 8 lines and last 6. I'll need to think further on that.
I've made the opening clearer, I hope.
I find some of the comments rather obtuse but I can provide footnotes if needed.

she’ll throw a dart in a far part of the globe
and chase an arrow for the precious metal
while her lips and her legs remain in vogue.

I think you might mean that she will travel far, but it isn't clear. I can't make anything out of chasing arrows or precious metal. Maybe you are saying that this sweaty girl with the stretchy skin will go where the money is as long as she is attractive? If so, this wording is terribly inefficient and unclear.

It's poetry, not science. You seem to have worked out what it means. Why the sarcasm? It helps nobody.

[milo]

Thanks, fellas. I'd agree there's much wrong with the poem, mostly the dissonance between the first 8 lines and last 6. I'll need to think further on that.
I've made the opening clearer, I hope.
I find some of the comments rather obtuse but I can provide footnotes if needed.

she’ll throw a dart in a far part of the globe
and chase an arrow for the precious metal
while her lips and her legs remain in vogue.

I think you might mean that she will travel far, but it isn't clear. I can't make anything out of chasing arrows or precious metal. Maybe you are saying that this sweaty girl with the stretchy skin will go where the money is as long as she is attractive? If so, this wording is terribly inefficient and unclear.

It's poetry, not science. You seem to have worked out what it means. Why the sarcasm? It helps nobody.

where do you see sarcasm? I was honestly trying to guess what you were trying to say. Now you say that I am right? Or are you being sarcastic?

For the life of me I can't even guess about the dart, the arrow, the silver tin and am pretty unsure about precious metal.

[R.C. KITCHENS]

The saxophones have found her home and slither in
to run riot on the quiet of her body.
I read the first draft, I see you took out "silver tin" "stolen" and replaced it with "have found her home" This seems to work as it gives a setting, where before, there was an inconsistency.
Forefingers and thumbs stretch a pliant skin,
she grows wet in the depths of her study
where she’s learning lap dancing and TEFL,
I like this better than sweat, because it implies she is getting horny.
to throw a dart in a far part of the globe
and chase an arrow for the precious metal
while her lips and her legs remain in vogue.
I kind of take this as dreams and aspiration, an arrow doesnt hold "precious metal" unless its gold or silver. I'd suggest a change there. It distracts as when reading , you realize that there is nothing precious in the metal of an arrow.
It’s closing time in the gardens of the west;
the baton is passed on to feed a hunger.
"baton" is a rarity associated with lap dancing.
She’s in a tipsy state and a flimsy dress,
bent over at the wrong end of a conga.
While foreign eyes are leering at his daughter,
he’s in the queue for Adjustment Disorder.

I think some work should be done for more clarity. The Father bit is a good transition, but could need more explanation as the poem seems to imply she was eating and it is assumed alone. But, the father is there, how? why? does she live with him or did he happen upon her by coincidence? It leaves questions, but it isnt bad to leave questions..It makes it mysterious like there should be a second part to the poem coming. which means..that a second part of the poem is needed or that the poem as sits, will need a line of clarification.

[ray]

Thanks, RCK. I've changed the title and some other things. Still a poor poem but a little better. Beginning and end need working on, I guess.
I remain bemused that lines 6-8 give difficulty, it's the one part I thought were straightforward.

[JunKai]

Revision

The saxophones have found her home and slither in,
running riot on the quiet of her body.The use of "on" in "running riot on the quiet of her body" works for me instead of "in" (as recommended in another post), which, to me, would suggest metaphoric gang rape instead of the frenzied, orgiastic foreplay I think is intended. Nice internal rhyming (saxaphones/home) and juxtaposition (riot/quiet) in an image I'd have been very pleased to have written--I can practically hear the slow, undulating sax phrasing and almost feel it on my own skin.
There’s an empty ring within the silver tin Apparently she's dodged an engagement or marriage. Suggestion: Perhaps change "There’s an empty ring" to "There’s [the] empty ring" and "within the silver tin" to "within [a] silver tin", which would emphasize the ring and de-emphasize the tin, perhaps erasing the knee-jerk question, "What tin?"
and one candle lights the depths of her study
where she’s learning lap dancing and TEFL,"TEFL" stopped me dead. I assume (after a web search) you're referring to teaching English as a foreign language. If so, how about "she’s learning lap dancing and [English teaching]", which would add clarity w/ grammatical and sonic parallelism while inviting the listener/reader to begin to wonder "What kind of English teaching?"--something you clarify in the next line. Also, I believe the comma in "dancing and TEFL," doesn't belong.
to throw a dart in a far part of the globe Dart and arrow I assume refer to the same item in the poem and seem unnecessarily redundant. How about "to throw a dart in a far part of the globe and chase [it] for some precious metal”?
and chase the arrow for some precious metal
while her lips and her legs remain in vogue. Seems to me that she's planning on gold-digging in a foreign country via exotic dancing. Yes? If so, I'd like to know why there and not here?

It’s closing time in the Gardens of The West
and we can’t afford the servants any longer. She's in a bar, I'm assuming, and if so, I'm confused by the sudden pivot to inability to pay for servants as well as the change of voice from third to first (then back in the next line). You apparently want to say something about her acquired taste for luxury and her wish to continue to satisfy it overseas, but the execution misses.
She’s in a tipsy state and a flimsy dress,
bent over at the wrong end of a conga; Grammar problem w/ semicolon followed by "and"--the "and" grammatically should be stricken, but a better revision might be "...conga./ [A]s foreign eyes..."
and as foreign eyes are leering at his daughter
he’s being treated for Adjustment Disorder. Want to know more of their relationship, especially as it applies to her wishing to leave the country. I assume he knows of her plans, but not clear.

As soon as you're more clear on what you want to say and how, I think you'll craft this into quite a poem so long as you keep your audience's ignorance in mind.

Original


The saxophones have found her home and slither in
to run riot on the quiet of her body.
Forefingers and thumbs stretch a pliant skin,
she grows wet in the depths of her study
where she’s learning lap dancing and TEFL,
to throw a dart in a far part of the globe
and chase an arrow for the precious metal
while her lips and her legs remain in vogue.
It’s closing time in the gardens of the west;
the baton is passed on to feed a hunger.
She’s in a tipsy state and a flimsy dress,
bent over at the wrong end of a conga.
While foreign eyes are leering at his daughter,
he’s in the queue for Adjustment Disorder.

[billy]

hi ray, (thanks for leaving feedback elsewhere )

after a few reads of the sonnet i felt there was a general problem with the meter. some of the rhymes also felt awkward, body study, globe vogue, daughter disorder. not sure if they'd pass as half rhymes but in general i'd say aim for full rhyme if you can. some good consonance and alliteration thread through the poem.
there's a lot going on and i think i missed most of it, i wonder if the ride could be more apparent.

Revision

The saxophones have found her home and slither in,great opening line and image
running riot on the quiet of her body.
There’s an empty ring within the silver tin
and one candle lights the depths of her study
where she’s learning lap dancing and TEFL,
to throw a dart in a far part of the globe
and chase the arrow for some precious metal
while her lips and her legs remain in vogue.

It’s closing time in the Gardens of The West
and we can’t afford the servants any longer.
She’s in a tipsy state and a flimsy dress,
bent over at the wrong end of a conga;
and as foreign eyes are leering at his daughter
he’s being treated for Adjustment Disorder. this line feels trite/forced.

Original


The saxophones have found her home and slither in
to run riot on the quiet of her body.
Forefingers and thumbs stretch a pliant skin,
she grows wet in the depths of her study
where she’s learning lap dancing and TEFL,
to throw a dart in a far part of the globe
and chase an arrow for the precious metal
while her lips and her legs remain in vogue.
It’s closing time in the gardens of the west;
the baton is passed on to feed a hunger.
She’s in a tipsy state and a flimsy dress,
bent over at the wrong end of a conga.
While foreign eyes are leering at his daughter,
he’s in the queue for Adjustment Disorder.

[tectak]

Revision

The saxophones have found her home and slither in,
running riot on the quiet of her body.
There’s an empty ring within the silver tin
and one candle lights the depths of her study
where she’s learning lap dancing and TEFL,
to throw a dart in a far part of the globe
and chase the arrow for some precious metal
while her lips and her legs remain in vogue.

It’s closing time in the Gardens of The West
and we can’t afford the servants any longer.
She’s in a tipsy state and a flimsy dress,
bent over at the wrong end of a conga;
and as foreign eyes are leering at his daughter
he’s being treated for Adjustment Disorder.

Original


The saxophones have found her home and slither in
to run riot on the quiet of her body.
Forefingers and thumbs stretch a pliant skin,
she grows wet in the depths of her study
where she’s learning lap dancing and TEFL,
to throw a dart in a far part of the globe
and chase an arrow for the precious metal
while her lips and her legs remain in vogue.
It’s closing time in the gardens of the west;
the baton is passed on to feed a hunger.
She’s in a tipsy state and a flimsy dress,
bent over at the wrong end of a conga.
While foreign eyes are leering at his daughter,
he’s in the queue for Adjustment Disorder.

Hi ray,
I'm disinclined to wade into this one. When the machinations over meaning become the over riding crit I think it's time to recollect your concept and ask a question. What am I (you) hoping to demonstrate to the readers of this piece...meaning or method?
Poetically, I have a great difficulty in assessing poetry without giving regard to both. In this piece, I read your words and weep. What a waste of concept. It is just NOT clear enough to see through. The whole thing becomes a cloak over clarity. The cloak is a fine piece of work...rich in texture, multi colored, shot through with threads of gold and beatifully patterned; but what the hell is it covering?
End of metaphor coming...thin out the language so that we get more of a glimpse of what is beneath.
Optionally, it is a concept re-write. The very worst action is continued editing by picking away at the threads until holes appear.
Best,
tectak

[ray]

Billy, Tectak, thanks very much.
I'm not really after strict metre and approximate rhymes are what I like best. I'm sure you're right, tectak, about tinkering and leaving holes. I've done it anyway in an attempt at clarity but I don't much like what it's become now!

[TheWall0912]

Another go

The saxophones have found her home and slither in,
running riot on the quiet of her body.
There’s an empty ring within the silver tin
and one candle lights the depths of her study
where she’s learning lap dancing and TEFL,
to throw a dart in a far part of the globe I have read through the other comments and I must disagree with some. I really enjoy this line and the two following. I think it does take a second read to really understand the meaning behind them, some may say its cryptic, but I really enjoy them. Interesting way of saying that she's using her body to make money.
and chase the arrow for some precious metal
while her lips and her legs remain in vogue.

The West has gone down with depression and stress
and we can’t afford the servants any longer.
She’s in a tipsy state and a flimsy dress, Really like this line and the next. It gives me a nice clear image of what's going on.
bent over at the wrong end of a conga.
While foreign eyes are leering at our daughters
we’re being treated for Adjustment Disorders. I'm going to have to agree with some other comments and say that the fact that you introduced a new "character" here is a little confusing. I understand their purpose, its obviously a father who is having trouble accepting what his daughter has become but maybe play around with it and see if you can make the transition smoother. Though, for me it is fine as is. Nice job!





Revision

The saxophones have found her home and slither in,
running riot on the quiet of her body.
There’s an empty ring within the silver tin
and one candle lights the depths of her study
where she’s learning lap dancing and TEFL,
to throw a dart in a far part of the globe
and chase the arrow for some precious metal
while her lips and her legs remain in vogue.

It’s closing time in the Gardens of The West
and we can’t afford the servants any longer.
She’s in a tipsy state and a flimsy dress,
bent over at the wrong end of a conga;
and as foreign eyes are leering at his daughter
he’s being treated for Adjustment Disorder.

Original


The saxophones have found her home and slither in
to run riot on the quiet of her body.
Forefingers and thumbs stretch a pliant skin,
she grows wet in the depths of her study
where she’s learning lap dancing and TEFL,
to throw a dart in a far part of the globe
and chase an arrow for the precious metal
while her lips and her legs remain in vogue.
It’s closing time in the gardens of the west;
the baton is passed on to feed a hunger.
She’s in a tipsy state and a flimsy dress,
bent over at the wrong end of a conga.
While foreign eyes are leering at his daughter,
he’s in the queue for Adjustment Disorder.

[billy]

Billy, Tectak, thanks very much.
I'm not really after strict metre and approximate rhymes are what I like best. I'm sure you're right, tectak, about tinkering and leaving holes. I've done it anyway in an attempt at clarity but I don't much like what it's become now!

then why write a sonnet; a form that works better with the things you're not after? (not condemning or saying don't) just curious?

[ray]

Thanks to The Wall - is that what we call you?
Billy - good point! I think it became a sonnet ( if indeed it is a sonnet) by default, accident, somewhere along the line.
I'm tempted now to just remove the last 2 lines - which nobody likes, not even me - and destroy any resemblance to a sonnet.