Newton's Cradle

[Todd]

Terror is never as simple as a doll
with a butcher’s knife crawling
through ventilation shafts.

It is always the unseen
clacking ball, the imperceptible
connections,
of butterflies wings and tornadoes.

We scan the skies for flying monkeys.
Or wander through corn fields
to the music of the moon with its midnight waltz
of straw zombies in need of brains--
simple distractions to protect us from the truth.

The witch cackle, cackles and you will believe
that you can never go home:

where the fingerprint will smudge
cancer on an X-ray,

where the clatter of the metal duct
covers the creak of tiny feet on hardwood,

and where the funnel cloud swirls
like a swarm of restless bees.

The ball is already swinging.

Death comes first
then the dying.

[tectak]

Hi todd,
I am always stunned by the breadth of you repertoire. So much so that I am over inclined to crit what I see as fallacies or failings in "fact" rather than in execution. This is not how I want to be seen by you and so I am going to concentrate on the poetry this time. Line by line with my usual enjoinder, now no longer stated , regarding line-out. You are
a lost
cause
Terror is never as simple as a doll
with a butcher’s knife crawling
through ventilation shafts.What this says, condensed, is that the "feeling" of terror is not: a doll...with a knife...in a shaft". You are using the relative "quantity" of the "simple" ingredient ( ie. more, less or the same= "as") to describe the "quality" of the terror. Whilst this is a very subtle nit, it is a very subtle point you are making. I am not convinced that the doll/knife/shaft analogy is that simple. So what am I leading up to. Well, I like the next line as a substitute.

" Terror is never as simple as
the unseen clacking ball.
It is always the doll with a butcher’s knife,
crawling through ventilation shafts;
with the imperceptible connections...". You may, and will, disagree no doubt. As I said, it is a subtle nit in a subtle poem.

It is always the unseen
clacking ball, the imperceptible
connections, This is the last time. I promise WHY IS CONNECTIONS ON ANOTHER LINE? Phew! That's better
of butterflies wings and tornadoes. a butterfly's wings. The chaos theory is probably no longer esoteric but I am not sure it is/was terror inducing. I don't really see the connection to the theme of the piece.

We scan the skies for flying monkeys.no full stop required here
Or wander through corn fields
to the music of the moon with its midnight waltzI read it out loud. I think a comma after "moon" or I get too breathless to waltz
of straw zombies in need of brains--
simple distractions to protect us from the truth.On balance I like this thought. If anything you could drop the "...in need of brains" as it mixes a Wizard of Oz metaphor with a million other Zombie tales. It distracts from the building mental image of the one, by making me think of the other!

The witch cackle, cackles and you will believe
that you can never go home:

where the fingerprint will smudge
cancer on an X-ray,This line seems strangely undomesticated compared to the rest...or am I missing something?

where the clatter of the metal duct
covers the creak of tiny feet on hardwood,Strictly speaking, no comma needed here. In fact it is an irritant because you are in the throes of impetuous declaration. You can see in your mind, one after the other, emotive images all of which evoke a feeling of dread... don't stop or pause. Let them flood out and purge you.

and where the funnel cloud swirls
like a swarm of restless bees.

The ball is already swinging.

Death comes first
then the dying.....but the rest is is pure theatre. Love it.[b]

I square the circle, todd. Where the hell do you get these concepts from? I read a leannism yesterday, somewhere, when she quoted someone as implying that poetry was dead as it had all been written. It hasn't. You prove it again and again.
Best,
tectak

[cidermaid]

Hi Todd,
Similarly to tectak I feel somewhat reluctant to dive into this and offer my thoughts...but from the other end of the spectrum. I am not a well read or particularly up on the in scientific sound bites of string, chaos, or any of the other popular theories that are currently doing the rounds.
So I guess as I approach this my first question will be, is this beyond my understanding, will it be too technically symbolic and science theory encoded to be accessible to me. I mention this to indicate where my starting basis is, as I approach this.

It was the title that hooked me in to have a read before I saw what section it was in or your name as an author so I think as far as it goes this makes it a good title with a strong image connection that I readily understood.
The title gives me an image of the popular desk toy of the 70's - 80's that was meant to demonstrate the conservation of momentum and energy. I have a recollection that it was all about the transference of a shock wave

- so I am thinking that this poem is going to be talking about, the effects of a shock wave in society or life in general and how these are perpetuated. This makes for an interesting thought / idea that i like very much.

Terror is never as simple as a doll
with a butcher’s knife crawling
through ventilation shafts. I'm thinking of almost every horror film I have ever seen. The paranoia and raw fear of being hunted by an impossible and undefeatable force. I particularly like the subtly of the reference to the ventilation shaft. A small space connected with a life essential. Subliminally my thought immediately take me to a sense of being cut off (how small is a nose or a mouth when the need for air is so great)

It is always the unseen
clacking ball, the imperceptible
connections,
of butterflies wings and tornadoes. I like what this stanza is saying, but do not like "connections" standing alone. To my eye and ear, I would place clanking ball on a line and move the imperceptible down to join connections. + is the comma needed after connections? (JMO). I have enough knowledge of the catch words and pictures to get the butterflies and tornadoes ref so I'm still hanging in there.

We scan the skies for flying monkeys.
Or wander through corn fields
to the music of the moon with its midnight waltz
of straw zombies in need of brains--
simple distractions to protect us from the truth. Yep still with you (on my level anyway).... wizard of OZ pictures. Dream state / confusion / unreality.

The witch cackle, cackles and you will believe
that you can never go home: ...and here's the meat of the fear.

where the fingerprint will smudge
cancer on an X-ray,

where the clatter of the metal duct
covers the creak of tiny feet on hardwood,

and where the funnel cloud swirls
like a swarm of restless bees. Cancer / murdered / holocaust..which will it be. Which swing ball will hit us out of the game with a transferred shock wave

The ball is already swinging. Great image to communicate the passing of time...the ticking clock, the running of sand in a timer...the ball swing slowly reducing. Love this connection.

Death comes first
then the dying. Nicely put. good ending.

it would seam that i had little to fear. Whilst it might be that my thoughts have trivialised a deep read with shallow appreciations in answer to my first question - Will I be able to get anything out of this is?, or is it as I feared from (wrongly) reading tectaks comments before critiquing, (let that be a lesson to me) beyond my understanding because of the subtle and clever use of "deeper things" than I have a grasp of...the answer is a resonding:- Yes. There is plenty that I can get hold of and work.
So thanks for the read Todd. Apart from a couple of very minor nits over punctuation I think is is well concieved and crafted.

[shemthepenman]

hey, this is great! I mean, simply brilliant! I know this is 'serious crit' etc. and I should give some something or whatnot, but I can't fault it, structurally, conceptually, chucky'ly...
the one thing I am curious about is, am I right in thinking that 'straw zombies', apart from the obvious, is a a reference to 'straw dogs'? In which case although I am delighted of its mention, that particular film does jar with the overall concept of the poem for me. But my god, this is just a small detail, and to be honest, leaving it in makes me want to read and reread it more.

[Todd]

Hi Tectak,

You've given me some edit ideas that I'm pretty sure I'm going to take thank you.

Hi todd,
I am always stunned by the breadth of you repertoire. So much so that I am over inclined to crit what I see as fallacies or failings in "fact" rather than in execution. This is not how I want to be seen by you and so I am going to concentrate on the poetry this time. Line by line with my usual enjoinder, now no longer stated , regarding line-out. You are
a lost
cause--Thank you. If you were to meet many of the people I know you would hear them say, "Todd, he's got an odd way of thinking about things--which is probably why my ideas are so out there." I really do appreciate the "fact" critiques as well as execution. I remember one critique you gave me where you discussed distillation and fermentation. I appreciated being able to improve the poem and not look like an idiot at the same time.
Terror is never as simple as a doll
with a butcher’s knife crawling
through ventilation shafts.What this says, condensed, is that the "feeling" of terror is not: a doll...with a knife...in a shaft". You are using the relative "quantity" of the "simple" ingredient ( ie. more, less or the same= "as") to describe the "quality" of the terror. Whilst this is a very subtle nit, it is a very subtle point you are making. I am not convinced that the doll/knife/shaft analogy is that simple. So what am I leading up to. Well, I like the next line as a substitute.

" Terror is never as simple as
the unseen clacking ball.
It is always the doll with a butcher’s knife,
crawling through ventilation shafts;
with the imperceptible connections...". You may, and will, disagree no doubt. As I said, it is a subtle nit in a subtle poem.--Actually, I think I agree with you here. I'm likely to make this change. I think your read on this is more correct than where my draft stands right now. It's a can't see the forest through the trees thing (cliches are allowed in responses I hope).

It is always the unseen
clacking ball, the imperceptible
connections, This is the last time. I promise WHY IS CONNECTIONS ON ANOTHER LINE? Phew! That's better--Since I know I can be aggravating with these choices. Here's why I did it. I normally never like one word lines, in this case though. I was thinking of the balls swinging back and forth and for whatever reason connections alone felt like it was doing that action visually between the lines it was sandwiched between. If this is a failure its because I just got enamored with replicated an effect...if that makes any sense at all. I'm not saying its the best choice, but I don't know if these things work until I try them, get critique, and look at them. I feel if I don't do it. I may be missing an interesting opportunity. More times than not, I remove them. There are rare occasions when they stay.
of butterflies wings and tornadoes. a butterfly's wings. The chaos theory is probably no longer esoteric but I am not sure it is/was terror inducing. I don't really see the connection to the theme of the piece.--I'll let this sit for a bit, and see if I agree.

We scan the skies for flying monkeys.no full stop required here
Or wander through corn fields
to the music of the moon with its midnight waltzI read it out loud. I think a comma after "moon" or I get too breathless to waltz
of straw zombies in need of brains----Thanks for the punctuation notes
simple distractions to protect us from the truth.On balance I like this thought. If anything you could drop the "...in need of brains" as it mixes a Wizard of Oz metaphor with a million other Zombie tales. It distracts from the building mental image of the one, by making me think of the other!--another one I'll give some thought to

The witch cackle, cackles and you will believe
that you can never go home:

where the fingerprint will smudge
cancer on an X-ray,This line seems strangely undomesticated compared to the rest...or am I missing something?

where the clatter of the metal duct
covers the creak of tiny feet on hardwood,Strictly speaking, no comma needed here. In fact it is an irritant because you are in the throes of impetuous declaration. You can see in your mind, one after the other, emotive images all of which evoke a feeling of dread... don't stop or pause. Let them flood out and purge you.--point taken. I'll make the change

and where the funnel cloud swirls
like a swarm of restless bees.

The ball is already swinging.

Death comes first
then the dying.....but the rest is is pure theatre. Love it.[b]

I square the circle, todd. Where the hell do you get these concepts from? I read a leannism yesterday, somewhere, when she quoted someone as implying that poetry was dead as it had all been written. It hasn't. You prove it again and again.--Thanks. I honestly rarely know if anything is going to work. I just look for different angles to approach. I appreciate the time you took, and the encouragement.
Best,
tectak

Best,

Todd

[brandontoh]

Since I know I can be aggravating with these choices. Here's why I did it. I normally never like one word lines, in this case though. I was thinking of the balls swinging back and forth and for whatever reason connections alone felt like it was doing that action visually between the lines it was sandwiched between. If this is a failure its because I just got enamored with replicated an effect...if that makes any sense at all. I'm not saying its the best choice, but I don't know if these things work until I try them, get critique, and look at them. I feel if I don't do it. I may be missing an interesting opportunity. More times than not, I remove them. There are rare occasions when they stay.
=========================================================================

That. I can see that you're trying to go for the effect, but the effort sort of falls apart after the second stanza. If you're really keen on the effect, just go all out, and go for shorter lines, which pretty much mean cutting off most of the current long lines into two. If it's something you're unsure about or feel that doesn't work, you should clean up the structure a little. Just my two cents, hope it helps! =)

[Todd]

Hi Todd,
Similarly to tectak I feel somewhat reluctant to dive into this and offer my thoughts...but from the other end of the spectrum. I am not a well read or particularly up on the in scientific sound bites of string, chaos, or any of the other popular theories that are currently doing the rounds.
So I guess as I approach this my first question will be, is this beyond my understanding, will it be too technically symbolic and science theory encoded to be accessible to me. I mention this to indicate where my starting basis is, as I approach this.

It was the title that hooked me in to have a read before I saw what section it was in or your name as an author so I think as far as it goes this makes it a good title with a strong image connection that I readily understood.
The title gives me an image of the popular desk toy of the 70's - 80's that was meant to demonstrate the conservation of momentum and energy. I have a recollection that it was all about the transference of a shock wave

- so I am thinking that this poem is going to be talking about, the effects of a shock wave in society or life in general and how these are perpetuated. This makes for an interesting thought / idea that i like very much.

--AJ, thanks for taking me through your thought process up to this point. I love where you took it. I'm glad it didn't turn out too scientifically esoteric for you . That thankfully, wasn't where I was going. I tend to flit between topics so your usually safe.

Terror is never as simple as a doll
with a butcher’s knife crawling
through ventilation shafts. I'm thinking of almost every horror film I have ever seen. The paranoia and raw fear of being hunted by an impossible and undefeatable force. I particularly like the subtly of the reference to the ventilation shaft. A small space connected with a life essential. Subliminally my thought immediately take me to a sense of being cut off (how small is a nose or a mouth when the need for air is so great)--I was thinking of a movie my Grandparents let me watch with them when we I was about four: Small little men with straight razors crawling through ventilation shafts in an old home. It's been at least 40 years but its stayed with me. So, horror film feel yep.

It is always the unseen
clacking ball, the imperceptible
connections,
of butterflies wings and tornadoes. I like what this stanza is saying, but do not like "connections" standing alone. To my eye and ear, I would place clanking ball on a line and move the imperceptible down to join connections. + is the comma needed after connections? (JMO). I have enough knowledge of the catch words and pictures to get the butterflies and tornadoes ref so I'm still hanging in there.--another note on connections. Thank you

We scan the skies for flying monkeys.
Or wander through corn fields
to the music of the moon with its midnight waltz
of straw zombies in need of brains--
simple distractions to protect us from the truth. Yep still with you (on my level anyway).... wizard of OZ pictures. Dream state / confusion / unreality.

The witch cackle, cackles and you will believe
that you can never go home: ...and here's the meat of the fear.

where the fingerprint will smudge
cancer on an X-ray,

where the clatter of the metal duct
covers the creak of tiny feet on hardwood,

and where the funnel cloud swirls
like a swarm of restless bees. Cancer / murdered / holocaust..which will it be. Which swing ball will hit us out of the game with a transferred shock wave

The ball is already swinging. Great image to communicate the passing of time...the ticking clock, the running of sand in a timer...the ball swing slowly reducing. Love this connection.

Death comes first
then the dying. Nicely put. good ending.

--It was instructive to read your reactions to know whether the line was hitting or not. Thanks.

it would seam that i had little to fear. Whilst it might be that my thoughts have trivialised a deep read with shallow appreciations in answer to my first question - Will I be able to get anything out of this is?, or is it as I feared from (wrongly) reading tectaks comments before critiquing, (let that be a lesson to me) beyond my understanding because of the subtle and clever use of "deeper things" than I have a grasp of...the answer is a resonding:- Yes. There is plenty that I can get hold of and work.
So thanks for the read Todd. Apart from a couple of very minor nits over punctuation I think is is well concieved and crafted.

Thank you, AJ

Best.

Todd

---

hey, this is great! I mean, simply brilliant! I know this is 'serious crit' etc. and I should give some something or whatnot, but I can't fault it, structurally, conceptually, chucky'ly...
the one thing I am curious about is, am I right in thinking that 'straw zombies', apart from the obvious, is a a reference to 'straw dogs'? In which case although I am delighted of its mention, that particular film does jar with the overall concept of the poem for me. But my god, this is just a small detail, and to be honest, leaving it in makes me want to read and reread it more.

Thanks shem, I get that way sometimes in serious. I connect with something, and just pass on my appreciation. As the writer, I certainly don't mind. . As far as Straw Dogs go...I'm embarrassed to say its one I've missed seeing. I've heard its good. I think they made a remake, but I mostly thinking of the original. So, if any of that movie is in this it's an accidental thing. Appreciate the kind words.

Best,

Todd

---

Since I know I can be aggravating with these choices. Here's why I did it. I normally never like one word lines, in this case though. I was thinking of the balls swinging back and forth and for whatever reason connections alone felt like it was doing that action visually between the lines it was sandwiched between. If this is a failure its because I just got enamored with replicated an effect...if that makes any sense at all. I'm not saying its the best choice, but I don't know if these things work until I try them, get critique, and look at them. I feel if I don't do it. I may be missing an interesting opportunity. More times than not, I remove them. There are rare occasions when they stay.
=========================================================================

That. I can see that you're trying to go for the effect, but the effort sort of falls apart after the second stanza. If you're really keen on the effect, just go all out, and go for shorter lines, which pretty much mean cutting off most of the current long lines into two. If it's something you're unsure about or feel that doesn't work, you should clean up the structure a little. Just my two cents, hope it helps! =)

Yeah, I see your point Brandon. If I want that effect. I should probably have went all out. Right Justify, Left Justify, Right Justify down the page. I may do a draft like that privately and see what I think. You make a good point though. Appreciate it.

It's funny where we take these edits from the chess thread isn't it?

Thanks for dropping by.

Best,

Todd

[Stalker]

hmmm Todd.

Obviously I lke this, it is very good.

it is about fate I think. As such the stanza that is attracting comments is rather pivotal.

It is always the unseen
clacking ball, the imperceptible
connections,
of butterflies wings and tornadoes



when I first read this it was imperceptible that I felt was out of place, now I am used to that. About Connections? well, IMHO it does just what you want as you said a sandwich, it goes with imperceptible and also serves to connect the wings to the winds.

but is it connections we speak about? Cidermaid speaks about energy transference - yeah I guess that is the thing about the cradle - but in the context of terror I can hear it all through the poem - marking time. And the time is slowing down, we need another impetus or the inevitable entropy (is that right?) / dissipation(?) will take over and that cause has fulfilled it's total effect. The bell tolls...

What you are saying, I think, is that we are frightened of the wrong things and that the laws that govern us, and our fate, are more subtle, less theatrical.

my least favorite part is the things we distract ourselves with. Too many words for my taste.


this may spawn poetry from me. Cos you know that last line is very powerful, death is inevitable, do we concentrate on how to live or how to die?

I have been asking myself the question lately,

do I focus on what I see or see what I focus on?

not very helpful perhaps in terms of developing your poem - but reading this brought one or two things into sharp relief.

StalKeR

[Todd]

hmmm Todd.

Obviously I lke this, it is very good.

it is about fate I think. As such the stanza that is attracting comments is rather pivotal.

It is always the unseen
clacking ball, the imperceptible
connections,
of butterflies wings and tornadoes



when I first read this it was imperceptible that I felt was out of place, now I am used to that. About Connections? well, IMHO it does just what you want as you said a sandwich, it goes with imperceptible and also serves to connect the wings to the winds.

but is it connections we speak about? Cidermaid speaks about energy transference - yeah I guess that is the thing about the cradle - but in the context of terror I can hear it all through the poem - marking time. And the time is slowing down, we need another impetus or the inevitable entropy (is that right?) / dissipation(?) will take over and that cause has fulfilled it's total effect. The bell tolls...

What you are saying, I think, is that we are frightened of the wrong things and that the laws that govern us, and our fate, are more subtle, less theatrical.

my least favorite part is the things we distract ourselves with. Too many words for my taste.


this may spawn poetry from me. Cos you know that last line is very powerful, death is inevitable, do we concentrate on how to live or how to die?

I have been asking myself the question lately,

do I focus on what I see or see what I focus on?

not very helpful perhaps in terms of developing your poem - but reading this brought one or two things into sharp relief.

StalKeR

Hi Lucy, I appreciate all the thoughts, and the way you read this. I'll consider the note on the distractions. I think your views on fate and what we focus on is inline with where I was hoping to go. If this spawns poetry from you, all the better.

Best,

Todd

[Wildcard]

Hi Todd,

Read this a couple of nights ago and wanted to sleep on it before I posted.

Terror is never as simple as a doll
with a butcher’s knife crawling
through ventilation shafts. --its a creepy image. I get Chucky visions

It is always the unseen
clacking ball, the imperceptible
connections,
of butterflies wings and tornadoes. --I don't understand 'butterflies and tornadoes' and when I Google it I get Aerosmith tattoos and the movie Twister - I am fully aware that it could just be me

We scan the skies for flying monkeys.
Or wander through corn fields
to the music of the moon with its midnight waltz
of straw zombies in need of brains--
simple distractions to protect us from the truth. --Maybe instead of 'straw zombie in need of brains' go with 'straw zombie in need of a brain'??

The witch cackle, cackles and you will believe
that you can never go home:

where the fingerprint will smudge
cancer on an X-ray, --the best part to me-- beginning to really wind up. I read tectak's crit with the commas after I had read the poem initially and I did remember stalling out. Rereading it as if without the commas does seem to make it . . . I don't know how to say it- it seems smoother?

where the clatter of the metal duct
covers the creak of tiny feet on hardwood,

and where the funnel cloud swirls
like a swarm of restless bees.

The ball is already swinging. --great line and a great ending.

Death comes first
then the dying.

I get tired of you being so great It makes me look like I am sucking up cause you are my boss to the third power :p

Thanks for sharing and the subject matter is not only thought-provoking but presented in a casual style which makes it feel more credible imo.

[Todd]

Hey thank you for taking the time to comment, Mark.

Check: Butterfly effect in google

Agree with both you and Tec on the punctuation. I'll think about the other points you raise.

Thanks again,

Todd