Disaster on the SS Grandcamp (2nd Revision)

[Leanne]

Drunkenly is more of dactyl: DRUNK en ly -- the 3rd syllable is stressed SLIGHTLY more than the second, but not really enough to drive the meter without a little bump. The stress alters depending on the words around it. As it is now, to say it with the meter I'm required to depress the "drunk" part of the word slightly to get it to even out. It is a very small scansion issue and most people wouldn't even notice it. I do only because that's my job

As I said, it works now, it's just not as perfect as I like things to be... but I'm terribly anal about this kind of thing.

"twists" is good.

I don't have an issue with "peering out" from a dialect point of view -- we're just as likely to say that here as well. It's only a slight sonic hiccup to my ear. As I said, I'm terribly anal about this kind of thing...

[billy]

I wanted the captain to be interrupted by the explosion, so I didn't finish the phrase. However, I figured 99% of readers know how that phrase ends, so I made an "implied" rhyme with "rip". I wasn't sure if that would work for everyone.

while i see and understand what you say, i'm of a mind that the majority would pull up short because of the rhyme break. even if for only a few seconds before they go "oh yeah that's what was meant" they stop and have to work it out, it means they stop and have to work it out, and this in turn take more than a little from the serious depth of the poem. i think for a poem of this quality it feels more like a gimmick jmo.

[svanhoeven]

Drunkenly is more of dactyl: DRUNK en ly -- the 3rd syllable is stressed SLIGHTLY more than the second, but not really enough to drive the meter without a little bump. The stress alters depending on the words around it. As it is now, to say it with the meter I'm required to depress the "drunk" part of the word slightly to get it to even out. It is a very small scansion issue and most people wouldn't even notice it. I do only because that's my job

I see. If I say the word DRUNK-en-ly by itself, it comes out dactylic. I guess I'm promoting the stress of -LY because it comes right before a-CCUSE and I can hear a relative stress drop after -LY. Maybe it's the higher tone of the "ee" sound in DRUNK-en-ly versus the "uh" sound in a-CCUSE.

Has anyone ever tried to pioneer a trivalent metrical system that accounts for relative stress due to tone differences? "DaDUM DaDUM DaDee DaDUM DaDUM".

[Leanne]

Oh god, don't even get me started on that!

Scansion causes rather violent arguments in some circles... suffice to say that no good ever comes of it The accepted classroom notation these days is "ictus and x", ie / is stressed, x is unstressed -- which is different to when I studied and will most likely be different again in ten years, just to irritate us. There is room in that system for an "intermediate" stress, \. It's useful for scanning what's already written but absolutely pointless when writing poetry in English, because our feet are only measured in relative "stress/unstress" and, as I said, the placement of the words can impact the stresses. Then there's accentual scansion that talks about heavy, light, long and short syllables. Since you're into the analytical stuff, you might be interested in Attridge's single line scansion, but I warn you, at the end of the day there's no substitute for just getting in, doing it, making mistakes and working out for yourself what sounds better.

PS. I don't know if you've seen the Narrative Poetry thread but that might have a few more ideas for you.

[svanhoeven]

OK, I know we beat this one to death, but I still haven't been able to shake the feeling that it needs an initial stanza to set the where/what/why. The original stanza definitely doesn't make the cut since upon reflection, the info and imagery was impertinent to the story. It takes place on a re-purposed liberty ship. Who cares? The cargo was fertilizer for post-war Europe. Who cares? No compelling reason for the reader to keep reading.

So, the first stanza needs this, but no more than this:

1) Where: a ship in port
2) What: loading dangerous cargo into the hold
3) Why the reader should keep reading: a hint that something really bad or exciting will happen.

So, here's a candidate first stanza:

In port, a freighter’s crewmen lowered down
and piled unstable cargo through a hatch;
then closely packing restless compounds, by
mistake they built a bomb and struck a match.

So, did I crap gold, or gild crap? I've read it too many times now to tell.

[Todd]

OK, I know we beat this one to death, but I still haven't been able to shake the feeling that it needs an initial stanza to set the where/what/why. The original stanza definitely doesn't make the cut since upon reflection, the info and imagery was impertinent to the story. It takes place on a re-purposed liberty ship. Who cares? The cargo was fertilizer for post-war Europe. Who cares? No compelling reason for the reader to keep reading.

So, the first stanza needs this, but no more than this:

1) Where: a ship in port
2) What: loading dangerous cargo into the hold
3) Why the reader should keep reading: a hint that something really bad or exciting will happen.

So, here's a candidate first stanza:

In port, a freighter’s crewmen lowered down
and piled unstable cargo through a hatch;
then closely packing restless compounds, by
mistake they built a bomb and struck a match.

So, did I crap gold, or gild crap? I've read it too many times now to tell.

Take a week away from it. It's too obvious "piled unstable cargo". It needs to have the hint of danger without it just put out there. If that makes any sense at all. If you want a set up stanza fine. You want calm before the sense of storm. I'd set it down for a week or so to let your mind recharge, but this doesn't do it for me.

Again, just one reader. Maybe others will feel differently.

Best,

Todd

[Leanne]

I don't disagree that you need a set-up stanza... but perhaps you can achieve this with something in a different style to the rest of the poem, even a paragraph of nicely poetic prose.

[serge gurkski]

I actually do think we're riding this to death.
I have one nit only:
"Unconscious errors": I guess you know why. Because: are there conscious errors ? See, what I mean and that makes me think , that "unconscious" is owed to the metrics rather than to the content: a filler.
I think it is a quite good poem and maybe give it a rest for some days. I think Todd wrote that above.
cheers
Serge

[svanhoeven]

I guess I need to figure out when to call it quits and move on.

Serge, I saw the same thing and already changed that in my local version to:

...Men bathed
the orange embers with a meager stream,
But their neglect had spawned a horrid loop-
...

Yep, time to call it done and move on to the next set of lessons.

[billy]

great piece of workshopping svan

[svanhoeven]

great piece of workshopping svan

Thanks, though I should probably change my username to s.vanhoeven so confused users can stop calling me "svan" or "sven".

[billy]

i'll just call you s then

[serge gurkski]

I guess I need to figure out when to call it quits and move on.

Serge, I saw the same thing and already changed that in my local version to:

...Men bathed
the orange embers with a meager stream,
But their neglect had spawned a horrid loop-
...

Yep, time to call it done and move on to the next set of lessons.

Didn't see that. Sorry. ("their neglect" is good)