Bit of Advice Needed:

[Card]

So... As I've alluded to, I've been a loner until, well, pretty much up until a year ago, and all my friends are people who talked to me first. Well, except for one girl who's rather shy herself, I actually initiated conversation first last summer, at the insistence of a friend to talk to people.

And as I've also said, I hide the restless circles under my eyes with red paint, throw white chalk on my face to hide the fact that it actually is the color of chalk, and honk a little horn so I don't have to talk. Figuratively, that is.
Point is, I make people laugh. All I really want is to make people happy. I don't even get picked on so much, because it's pretty hard for other guys to top what I've got to say. And if they need an ear, I'm always there to lend it.
But no one really talks to a clown. I'm not exactly invisible, but no one really thinks about me. I'm literally picked last in every class or group I'm in, but it isn't necessarily because I suck at it. I just don't cross their mind. Teachers hardly call on me either, I'm mostly just some chopped liver.

Don't get me wrong, I want to make others happy. I get happiness out of that. But I don't get satisfaction.
That's why I write so much about loneliness --The Big Empty, "The Lack Thereof"-- in my life. I have my humor, but...
I honestly cannot remember a single time a genuine conversation about me was started by someone else. I've jawed a bit to my close friends, but it doesn't make them happy.

Anyways, I figured if I wanted advice about my social life the natural place to go is the forum consisting of introverted individuals as a rule.

Also because at least some of y'all know how to express yourself.
The only reason I can be more open here is because you aren't listening to a clown, and I can't tell if you guys are happy or not unless you say so.


Oh, right. Question.
Do y'all understand what I'm talking about, and do you have any advice for how I can talk to people without having to be ridiculous?

Also, am I actually crazy and all healthy relationships are actually built on laughter alone?




PS: If I seem a bit crazy, I have some weird bug. It's going around my family, and somehow just messes with my mind. It's got me spacing out the way a prescription depressant would.

[Leanne]

Hey there. I can almost guarantee that pretty much anyone who's ever been young (and that's all of us here except billy, who was hatched as a grumpy old bastard and has just grown into a bigger one) will understand at least part of what you're saying.

I honestly cannot remember a single time a genuine conversation about me was started by someone else.

I'll address the reason for this first: when you're a teenager, right through to your mid- (and for some people, late-) twenties, you are the centre of your universe. You are experiencing a lot of things for the first time and they'll seem very intense. Worrying about yourself and how you fit into the world, finding your own identity, trying to understand how this relationship malarky works -- all very common and necessary parts of the transition into adulthood. Now, how does this relate to your above statement? All your friends are in the same position. It's not that they're thoughtless or don't care; it's not that people deliberately ignore you. It's simply a case of you not being the centre of their universe. Empathy takes a lot more years to develop than society is prepared to acknowledge (and for some people, it never develops at all). Men have the additional difficulty of later maturity than women, which means that you have a chemical disadvantage as well -- when you encounter a problem, your brain hasn't quite worked out the appropriate level of hormones to release and you most likely end up with an overdose of adrenalin, the fight-or-flight hormone. That one's handy when you need it, but a pain in the arse to deal with when you don't as it can lead to extreme anxiety and inappropriate responses. Hooray for chemicals!

One of the best lessons you'll ever learn is that you're not all that unique. Oh, I know it's super fashionable for all those positive-thinking guru types to pump people up by saying that you can be whatever you want to be, you're an amazing individual, you're the one who is in charge of your own incredibly fulfilling destiny... but it's all bollocks. That's not to say that everything's hopeless and things that happen to you are only at the whim of the universe -- it means that no matter how convinced you are that your problems are yours alone, there's an excellent chance (rather, a certainty) that someone else (probably many someones) has experienced exactly the same things, or as close to the same as makes no difference.

And yes, all healthy relationships have laughter as one of the strongest foundations. Sharing laughter is sharing vulnerability in equal parts. Nothing can survive without flaws being acknowledged and then rendered powerless by humour.

[Card]

Thank you for responding!
And I know it's bull that everyone is special. I do see some people who don't though and that's always equal parts amusing, terrifying and annoying.
I am fucked up though. I had a bit of an irregular... childhood.

I really have just been worried that I've become some background, and that people don't really keep me around for company so much as for a laugh.
I do think you're right though, that humour is a big part of relationships.

[Leanne]

Sorry to disillusion you, but there's no such thing as a "regular" childhood

Knowing what I know about people around here, I can guarantee there's almost nothing that can't be overcome. Whether you end up "normal" is just dependent on whether you conform to an arbitrary measure made by people who think they have a right to label others. You end up how you end up, and once you hit adulthood, nobody is responsible for that but you.

Artists are probably a bit luckier than most -- at least we have a way to express ourselves and reach others at the same time.

[billy]

play with your penis for awhile and forget about everything but boobage.

okay bad answer.

maybe you are the person who makes people laugh, and maybe you do get lost in the background and maybe no one really thinks about you., if that's the case why do they come to you to unload?
at present you're pimple waiting to explode into a blackhead. then, then my son, you'll get picked.
join some geeky group that makes people laugh, give the shy girl some poetry, slap it in her hand and say "there you go"
at worst she'll hate you, it's no biggy, i've been hated all my life it's hard for me to understand what you're going through, and so it's hard for me to be sympathetic. but i am. just keep listening and making people laugh and i promise you, your time will come.

all those peers you know that brim with confidence, well they're writing cutter poetry on another forum. they really are insecure, a couple of the guys may have big dicks and feel on top of the world but life will treat them really bad.
depression, that's something you have to deal with. everything we say is bullshit really, i could make you laugh but i'm guessing the depression will always return, well in truth it probably won't, at present you're a ball sack of angst and testosterone ...or oestrogen depending on your flavour. poetry can be a could outlet but the best outlet is saying fuck it..and believing what you say. seriously fuck it. if it's going to break you, bend with it or go round it. fuck it. i'm guessing you're not into sex drugs and rock and roll, at 14 i was in whorehouses and shebeens till 4 am and later. on a regular basis, if i'd have gone the sensible route i'd have made something of myself...oh right, this is about you isn't it. just live your life make people laugh, it one of out better qualities. so is being there when someone needs you. girls come and go, and then one day one will stay and you'll think what's going on in your life now was a cakewalk seriously, if it happens it happens, you'll get the woman you want and life will move on with a different set of problems.

on a final note, you say all the friends you have are people you talked to first? doesn't that tell you something? ...talk to more people (specially the ones you'd like to ..........................................

[Todd]

Hey so it's like Leanne said nearly everyone between say 12 and 25 feels like a loner, and some sort of freak (puberty really is a bitch).

For example back in the Jurassic period, when I was younger. I moved from a city where I knew everyone to a small little hick town where I got to attend a thug junior high (our term for middle school). Kids that have known you from elementary school sort of get used to your differences, and I hadn't had to fight much since third grade. Life suddenly got seeded with a whole new bunch of assholes.

For the next three years I was in hell. I am not exaggerating that I got in fights every day--usually multiple fights. Fighting didn't really lead to suspensions in those days, and that was good. I used humor to diffuse as many situations as possible, but I wasn't going to stand by and "take it"--so there you go. Why all the trouble? You've talked about looks being an issue for you. Truth is everyone and I mean everyone has an issue of some sort. Some people won't figure that out until they're in the wasteland of their 20s or 30s when they look at the wreckage of their life, or they continue to screw up and hurt themselves and everyone else around them. Most people though understand that way early.

For me, that issue was the way I walked (insanely minor case of cerebral palsy). I was convinced that this one factor would lead me to a life of pain, loneliness, and depression. I was positive and there was no arguing with me (not that I brought it up in public) that I would die alone, or just choose to end it one day. I used humor like you did, and said how I wanted people to laugh and be happy--and that was partly true. What I really wanted was people to like me for me, and be happy myself. I was sure that would never happen.

The pressure cooker of life kept doing what it does best building the pressure. One day I was in an English class in senior year, there was some conversation going on between the instructor and the students. The instructor something that was really, really funny. Everyone was acting too cool to respond. I started laughing like a maniac realizing on some level everyone was caught up in such self conscious bullshit. I just decided not to play anymore. I was still sure things could go badly for me, but I decided to just say "fuck it all" and start just taking chances. If I was sure I was going to miserable anyway then what did I have to lose.

I'm not really an introvert. I think of myself as a bit of an antisocial extrovert. That said pretty much from that point forward the pressure was off. If I liked a girl. I walked up to her and asked her out (this had mixed results into my 20s, but it sure beat the hell out of the feeling of trapped anguish). If I wanted to be "picked". I looked at the person picking and said hey I'm good at this. Do you want to do well? I got picked more. People started liking me, because I was less focused on me, and more interesting to them (again back to Leanne's point people are mostly always in their own little world).

The confidence and approach alone made me more approachable. So when I think of your situation my suggestion is to do what feels uncomfortable and take initiative when you want something. You have to be willing to accept poor initial consequences. Be aware that poor initial consequences sometimes find a way to work themselves out in a positive way. People may never start a conversation about you. The trick is realizing that definitely in that demographic (and for some the rest of their lives) people want to focus on and talk about themselves. You control most conversations by asking questions and listening. You probably do that anyway. Keep at it, and don't worry if people don't change. If they are shallow and never talk to you then move on to others some of them will eventually miss the interaction and grow up a bit. If they don't screw em they weren't worth your time.

I'm married. I have a son. Before that, I dated people that liked me, found me infuriating and interesting. This is the pattern that most people follow. There truly are people that you will connect with. It does happen--really, hang in there.

Stop obsessing to the best of your ability and take action.

Oh and to the normal family thing, popular culture is so full of shit on that. Let's see my mother has had four husbands (some crazy), and I went through a hell of a lot. Upon reflection, she raised me well in some areas, screwed up in others, on the whole it turned out fine. Though that's taken years and finally being a parent myself to reflect on properly. Every family is a little bit nuts.

We've all been there where you are (only with different issues). That said, we were all alone in some real way--next to a group of other people that we're also all alone, even if some were too shallow to recognize that singular fact.

I understand you, and yes laughter is a good thing (its a bit of a social tool, a coping mechanism, and a means to diffuse violence). In relationships it can help quite a bit. Again though, you'll hear people say be confident, act confident, self-help this, self-help that... What's mostly important for a social life is to take action and not be passive. It's like writing you have to just accept that rejection occurs and refuse to be moved by it. It sounds easy to say, but it actually gets easier to do.

[rowens]

I think it's important to understand that we are animals, and our mental and emotional lives are not a perfect art nor a real science.

If you get nervous and sick just because of a simple sight or sound, or something seemingly random like that: what can you do? You have to deal with it the best way you can, or find some way to "fix" it; or just give up.

Some people do give up. I don't, and nobody else writing here has. Not yet anyway.

I know that my childhood ended the first day of school, and after a while I stopped going. I used to have nervous tics, I had these abstract feelings that my mom was being murdered, and the only way I could stop it was if I cleared my throat really loud until the feeling faded behind the tension in my throat. It might sound weird, but that's just the way it was. And of course the teachers punished me, and kids picked on me for it. So I became a clown. But my weird stuff made them simply mess with me, not out of hatred, but out of the desire to abuse someone along with your peers. So then I stopped going to school; and when I did go, I just slept, because they put me on drugs, and I slept about 18 hours everyday.

I decided to become scary, so the people stopped picking fights with me. But the girls were afraid of me, so if I was seen talking to one, a group of whatever group the girl belonged to: rednecks, self-proclaimed gangstas, rock 'n' roll meatheads, a group of guys would threaten me. But then the suicidal, depressed, severely "mentally ill" people started to be drawn to me. And I was constantly being accused by others of forming some Satanic cult. And things got even worse. So I just started travelling around like a bum, doing stuff I liked: wrestling, acting, singing, writing. And I'd have breakdowns and come back here to my hometown--that word pains me, but it's true--and would be locked in my little storage shack alone for years at a time. And I lived like Howard Hughes, without the money or the servants. And I'd leave long enough to clean myself up, seek out and have disastrous affairs of varied success with the most beautiful women in town. Then when they finally go back to their "normal" men, I go off somewhere, or back to my shack and rip my mind apart searching for reasons to go on living.

And to give one more example of how things work. I run on raw emotion, and my intelligence is only a toolbox that I leave to one side. Instinct and emotion. I know it would be a bad idea to get drunk and go to the workplace of a woman that's recently deceived me and broke me into pieces. But I wake up, and I consciously decide to get drunk and walk all the way to where she works and cause a scene. And afterwards I spend weeks in feverish torment; shame and regret. In fact, I almost convince myself I regret it for a year or two. Then I start to feel a bit proud of myself. And I get drunk, and listen to music, and feel great emotional well-being based on the way I behaved.

So, that's life for some of us. I love to use public restrooms, because I enjoy the refreshing sensation of shitting in society's public domain. I might be alone right now, but I've known and still know some of the most beautiful women alive today. And they're afraid of what society says and does; but they're not afraid of me. I can see it in their eyes, and that makes me happy. And it gives me hope.

And you can have hope too, The Card. You are smart and decent enough to make it in this world despite everything. As long as somebody doesn't show up and randomly shoot you, like has been happening so much lately in this crazy country.

[brandontoh]

Well, there are loads of good advice given by the rest. As someone who's within your age range, at least one who struggled with being a loner for about slightly more than a decade, all I have to tell you is this: just be yourself. It's honestly easier said than done, since it's easy to fall into the pretentiousness trap and trying to be someone you're not. Learn to like, or at least come to terms with every part of yourself. If you want someone to be close to you, be your emotional support and play billy's favourite "game" with you, try to approach him/her/it nicely, and slowly open yourself up? Ah well, it's a phase, everyone goes through it. Good luck with life! =)

[Card]

Thanks for all the advice, you guys! And that has to be the best reason to use public bathrooms ever.

And I'm gonna share, real quick, what my childhood was like:
I was one of about ten white kids in my grade school. I didn't talk 'til four years old, and when I did I had a major speech defect. Literally unintelligible. I went to speech therapy from preschool to fifth grade, when we moved out of the country. That put me in little plastic chairs between a few people with a small verbal tic, and a majority that were mentally challenged. Not all that great for my self-esteem, them doing better than me and actually managing to "pass" therapy while I never did.
I also was writing right-handed instead of left-handed. This led to my writing being illegible. Until Sophomore year of high school. I also had ADD and didn't realize that until grade 10 as well.
Oh, and I really saying this, but everyone at my school was really fucking stupid.

So... yeah. I was the odd man out of any group, being the sole fat white (and asthmatic. Thank forest fires and pollution for that bit) guy in my class. Who couldn't finish their math sheet. Because that also happened, and everyone seems to think only math takes intelligence. So my classmates and I viewed each viewed the other as being idiots.

So I separated myself and read. It sounds a bit schizo of me, but I read to keep the voices quiet. The voices of doubt, insecurity, the thoughts I had that maybe I was like the others in my speech class.
I didn't make any more friends after... well... second grade, if I remember correctly. I sat on my fat ass and read. I didn't get better until summer after freshman year.

And I had realized something that summer. I realized I wanted to be a pastor. The church I had been going to was a fucking Broadway show. I was baptized at something like age eight, but I didn't actually have Jesus until summer after eighth grade.
But... yeah. There was a youth pastor, he took us to a church camp that he had always gone to (he met his wife there too) and I paid attention and read the Bible. The Bible is the only book that actually brings me joy to read. Everything else just reminds me of grade school. But, all the adults in my life think I enjoy reading. They keep reminding me of back then, and they don't understand when I tell them, they just keep talking about books.

Anyways, I was a loner until pretty much last year, but the hardest thing has been talking to people. Most of them have had what I call normal childhoods. Childhoods where they talked to people, gained social skills and learned how to handle others. Closest I'd gotten to that was being an observer.
I mean, talking is pretty instinctual with most people. You don't even think about it. But I run everything in my head through before talking to someone, unless I'm joking. If I'm joking I'll just say the first thing to come out. The way my brain is wired, that thing is funny 95% of the time. But I can't be comfortable if the group I'm in is larger than five or six. Especially if I don't know one or two of them very well. Talking I'm not comfortable doing in a group larger than about three. And three is a stretch (these numbers are including myself, by the way).

Ah, but I dunno. It wasn't that hard of a childhood, but... that's it. I've done nothing else. There's maybe one thing I haven't said, and that's that I go to a church youth group, and that's the only place I can feel comfortable in a group. It's because of the mission trips, you can't sleep in the same house, same room, and building houses with them without feeling a kinship with them.

But... yeah. That's the thing about my life that depresses me, I guess. That it can be laid out in a forum in pretty fine detail.


But yeah, I do need to just suck it up and do something. Really, what I've been doing is trying to be sociable with people I know. It's really hard to do so sometimes, but... yeah, I dunno. I'm missing something, I guess it could easily be confidence.

[billy]

[rowens]

I hate math. I like the four Gospels. I don't like Churches; but I like walking around in churchyards.

One thing about problems that make you feel strange: talking about them only makes ignorant people think you're more strange; while reasonable people will think it's strange that you think you're strange.--But then again, most things go over people's heads quick. You'd think with all the modern day communication that people would be used to the fact that people are different all over. But it's just something they cling too: that they are normal and anyone different is weird. And though almost every young person that opens their mouth says that they themselves are weird and openminded, that's along the lines of all those punk rockers out there today rebelling against society by conforming to consumer society's trendsetters (though most of them aren't even aware that punk rock ever had anything to do with rebellion [and most of it didn't]). I don't know how many times I've been reported for being drunk in public by young guys with green hair, or mohawks, or anarchy patches on their trousers.

Sometimes it's just too hard to conform to all that stuff. Girls like it, or pretend to; so that they won't have to deal any more than they have to with that nagging insecurity that dictates most everything they say and do.


But the moment you find a woman that you don't have to dress like an asshole and talk like a clone to get her to like you: it'll be worth it. Sometimes they're hard to find. And sometimes they'll try to do it, and then find that they can't handle it and abandon you. But there are some women that look and carry themselves like fashion models that are batshit crazy, and will fall in love with even you or me.

I fall apart all the time. I wreck stuff left and right. And talk and talk nonsense until it makes sense and sounds good enough for people to believe it. That's all human life is: nonsense made bona fide.

You talk like you're still in high school. I wish I had somebody telling me things like people are telling you on this thread when I was that age. I had no encouragement; I'm in VA too, at the very bottom of it. And my family, even my so-called friends just said I was crazy and ditched me. And left me in hospitals with schizophrenic people and people that talked to themselves all day and night and pissed on you mistaking you for a toilet. Or had me doped up and stored out of sight for years.

When you're young, the people older than you are just as idiotic as your peers will be when you're older. And there are people far uglier and crazier and weirder that are swimming in beautiful women.

And a smart, lovely woman that will get all your jokes and despise all the idiots you despise: she exists. You just have to accept the challenge of finding her. Start up an adventure.