Angry relatives of 9/11 victims last night clashed with supporters of a planned mosque near Ground Zero at a raucous community-board hearing in Manhattan.

After four hours of public debate, members of Community Board 1 finally voted 29-1 in support of the project. Nine members abstained, arguing that they wanted to table the issue and vote at a later date.

The board has no official say over whether the estimated $100 million mosque and community center gets built. But the panel's support, or lack of it, is considered important in influencing public opinion.


Holding up photos of loved ones killed in the Twin Towers and carrying signs such as, "Honor 3,000, 9/11 -- No mosque!" opponents of the proposed Cordoba House on Park Place called the plan an insult to the terror-attack victims.

source:

i think if they build any religious building it should be a multi religious one.

i don't think all muslims are terrorists. though i do think building just a mosque could be seen as a slap in the face to new yorkers and some survivors. if a tri church was built, catholic, muslim, jewish, i think it would help bring the community together.

Quote:Holding up photos of loved ones killed in the Twin Towers and carrying signs such as, "Honor 3,000, 9/11 -- No mosque!" opponents of the proposed Cordoba House on Park Place called the plan an insult to the terror-attack victims.

Nonsense. A mosque is fine as far as I'm concerned. And the protest over Ahmadinejad's
wanting to visit the site to honor the victims of 9-11 was mass stupidity I think.

i agree. shouldn't events like that be used to stimulate peace, not that it would with iran.
sometimes doesn't the hate stick get a little heavy? i can understand that many are unwary of the middle east but if we always protest at anything to do wit it won't shit get worse?

I can understand condemning terrorists, but condemning the whole of Islamic religion for 9/11 is just too much. Do they even realize how hateful they sound? Geez, why not kick all Muslims out of New York while you're at it, since their mere presence is such an "insult" and so "disrespectful"?

They should be able to build a mosque if they want, just like Christians should be just as free to build a church next door if that's what they want. If America insists on being the land of the free, then they should act like it.

(07-21-2010, 05:25 PM)addy Wrote:  If America insists on being the land of the free, then they should act like it.

We are acting like it, to a large extent. And consequently we allow our lunatics to make the news.

i doubt any land is the land of the free anymore but that's another thread lol

surely creating a melting pot which integrates us all
is the way to move forward. so many ideologies would
be the same with a little tweak or two. lets make it law that
at least 10 percent of any priest of any religion must be
drawn form a different religion. easy to say i know. the
middle eastern countries would never go for it.


on the flip side. it isn't muslims who are asking to build the mosque
but non muslims in a show of peace. under these circumstances i can
see why some would feel nut kicked. if muslims want a mosque at ground zero, fine.
but don't take the choice out of their hands or even the hands of the 9/11
leftovers and simply do it because it seems like a good idea at the time.

(07-21-2010, 11:53 AM)altezon Wrote:  The protest over Ahmadinejad's wanting to visit the site to honor the victims of 9-11 was mass stupidity I think.

(07-21-2010, 03:29 PM)billy Wrote:  i agree. shouldn't events like that be used to stimulate peace? not that it would with iran

It was bad form if nothing else. We didn't have to let him make a speech there -- he just wanted to leave some flowers.

Mr. Ahmadinejad should have seen this coming. But according to the law, there should be no reason why a mosque can't be built there. The shameful thing is that a few muslims gave a bad name to all muslims through their jihad...

don't some white christians do the same thing
for all christians. specially it's leaders (at times )

Precisely. But muslims already had a bad name for other reasons, I don't think they were very popular in America either.

true.

personally i think the time/era of peace is getting closer.
it doesn't seem that way but now things have to really get bad for two tribes to duke it out.
a few hundred years ago we'd all be slitting throats at the drop of a hat. at east now things have to really get out of hand. (arguably)

There will always be war in my opinion. It's in our nature to be vindictive and greedy.

(07-21-2010, 06:44 PM)altezon Wrote:  

(07-21-2010, 05:25 PM)addy Wrote:  If America insists on being the land of the free, then they should act like it.

We are acting like it, to a large extent. And consequently we allow our lunatics to make the news.

That is precisely true Addy!
altezon, we cannot be free ever we're too puritanical.
I can't even imagine how or why you think we could act like the "land of the free" {"land of the feebs" is more like it!} when we have laws that prevent people from marrying whom they want and that allows the government to spy on you
with no reason at all and kills innocent people
wrongly convicted of murder.
I'm not trying to go off on a tangent but you get my drift?

(07-23-2010, 04:55 AM)SidewaysDan Wrote:  Mr. Ahmadinejad should have seen this coming. But according to the law, there should be no reason why a mosque can't be built there. The shameful thing is that a few muslims gave a bad name to all muslims through their jihad...

Actually a vocal minority/majority wants to say that a Mosque doesn't belong there but why doesn't it?
Many different people from many different religions were killed at the site
and Billy's idea of a universally acceptable building to meditate in is a great idea but some folks want to keep the hate alive I guess.

The shameful thing is that a few muslims gave a bad name to all muslims through their jihad...

No! A few Americans decided that all Muslim's were bad because of the actions of a minority but they don't want to bother with more than a superficial glance at why Islam is a religion of peace and not a religion of "jihadist's" which is easier to think of them
as If your a white, christian, right wing/left wing Ame-rican!
Sorry if this isn't answering the questions/comments in order but I'm tired and disgusted tonight.
C.B.

just been talking to addy about the mosque. wouldn't it be good if the gov said yes you can have a mosque there to pray in as long as you also have the next four biggest religions. it could be built in the shape of wheel with the centre being a place where they can all get together and discuss what's going on in the world, hold exhibitions and seminars etc

i think if such a place does get built it has to be done from government funding.

(07-21-2010, 05:25 PM)addy Wrote:  If America insists on being the land of the free, then they should act like it.

(07-21-2010, 06:44 PM)altezon Wrote:  We are acting like it, to a large extent. And consequently we allow our lunatics to make the news.

(08-05-2010, 10:32 AM)cigarbabe Wrote:  That is precisely true Addy!
altezon, we cannot be free ever we're too puritanical.
I can't even imagine how or why you think we could act like the "land of the free" {"land of the feebs" is more like it!} when we have laws that prevent people from marrying whom they want and that allows the government to spy on you with no reason at all and kills innocent people wrongly convicted of murder.
I'm not trying to go off on a tangent but you get my drift?

Sure I do. And I did say "to a large extent"

You'll notice that a federal district court in California just declared the referendum banning same-sex marriage to be unconstitutional. California provides for its citizenry to change the laws through referenda, which one could argue is a democratically "free" participation in government. The downside is, people make unsound laws that have to be undone by the courts.

A government's unwarranted spying on its citizens is bad, and it won't last. See the Church Commission's crackdown on the CIA in the 1970's and the forced resignation of Richard Nixon for examples of reining in the executive branch.

The governor of Illinois suspended state executions in response to advances in DNA identification technology that showed people were being wrongly convicted. That's a step forward. And 20 US jurisdictions have no death penalty statutes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_pun...ted_States

(07-23-2010, 04:55 AM)SidewaysDan Wrote:  Mr. Ahmadinejad should have seen this coming. But according to the law, there should be no reason why a mosque can't be built there. The shameful thing is that a few muslims gave a bad name to all muslims through their jihad...

(08-05-2010, 10:32 AM)cigarbabe Wrote:  
Actually a vocal minority/majority wants to say that a Mosque doesn't belong there but why doesn't it? Many different people from many different religions were killed at the site, and Billy's idea of a universally acceptable building to meditate in is a great idea, but some folks want to keep the hate alive I guess.

Indeed they do. I don't suppose killing all the hate-mongers would help.

(08-05-2010, 02:07 PM)altezon Wrote:  Indeed they do. I don't suppose killing all the hate-mongers would help.

nope, never in a month of Sundays
but perhaps not giving them credence would.
we can dismiss whatever the politicians say
on either side of the argument, out of hand.
compassion, hope, the need for freedom for
whatever reason, begins in the individual person.
as does hatred and anger i suppose. what we
need to do is ostracize the haters and project
the hopeful, compassionate and caring peoples ideas. jmo

Too true. The problem is that sensible sentiments and messages get drowned out in the media because the drama spouted by hateful extremists is more interesting. What we need to remember is the only reason these vicious, hateful voices are so loud is because they're making up for the fact that they are totally wrong.

(08-05-2010, 02:07 PM)altezon Wrote:  I don't suppose killing all the hate-mongers would help.

(08-06-2010, 08:39 AM)billy Wrote:  what we need to do is ostracize the haters and project
the hopeful, compassionate and caring peoples ideas.

I was going for irony.

(08-06-2010, 11:49 AM)altezon Wrote:  

(08-05-2010, 02:07 PM)altezon Wrote:  I don't suppose killing all the hate-mongers would help.

Well............maybe!
Can we start with the Westboro Baptist morons first though?

(08-06-2010, 08:39 AM)billy Wrote:  what we need to do is ostracize the haters and project
the hopeful, compassionate and caring peoples ideas.

Excellent suggestion Billy.

I was going for irony.

It was quite ironic!

(07-21-2010, 11:01 AM)billy Wrote:  i think if they build any religious building it should be a multi religious one.

I absolutely agree. It would be a positive mark in history.

billy Wrote:if a tri church was built, catholic, muslim, jewish, i think it would help bring the community together.

You forgot to include Christians ... mind you that could stir up a boiling pot with so many different denominations. Which one would you choose?

sidewaysdan Wrote:It's in our nature to be vindictive and greedy.

This is not meant directly at you dan, but sometimes I get tired of hearing about all the negative in our nature, as though it's an excuse to be so. To me one of our biggest short comings is arrogance and I wish I could collect it all up and bury it.
I have a special saying that I try to hold true to and exercise. Some of you may have already read it before as I posted it on suprbay (hope it's ok sharing it here?)



One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people.
He said, "My son, the battle is between two wolves inside us all.

"One is Evil - It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment,

inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

"The other is Good - It is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness,
benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather: "Which wolf wins?"

The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."