examinor.com Wrote:May 2, 2010 - Drug war violence in Mexico is reaching an all-time high with 24 dead in 24 hours over the weekend.

The majority of the deaths occurred in the Mexican state of Chihuahua where 10 people died. The remainder of the deaths were scattered over three other locations throughout the state with eight dead in Juarez, five killed in Cuahtemuc, and one killed in Parral.

The killings all occurred in public places. The five killed in Cuahtemuc were killed in a bar.

According to Carlos Gonzalez, a spokesman for the Chihuahua state attorney general, the killings took place between Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning.

All of the victims were males aged 18 to 25 years old.

No further details were released about the victims.

Violence picked up in April and is continuing into May.

The war is between the Sinaloa and Juarez cartels. The two cartels are battling for Juarez Plaza, the state’s drug trafficking corridor.

The weekend killings followed a brutal week when at least 15 people were killed in drug-related violence in Juarez on Wednesday, and on Tuesday, 10 people were killed.

The Wednesday slayings included four people whose bodies were found at one location, another three – one of them a woman – were found slain at a second location, and another eight who were killed at a bar, police spokesman Jacinto Seguro said.

The Tuesday killings included three who were shot outside a supermarket and another victim was killed outside a shopping mall.

In all 25 people were killed between Tuesday and Wednesday.

More than 2,600 drug-related deaths occurred in Ciudad Juarez in 2009. Ciudad Juarez is the most violent city in Mexico. There are no official numbers for this year but media have reported 500 killings with some reports as high as 810 in Juarez this year.

Mexico’s hardest-hit state, Chihuahua, is reported to have 6,757 people killed since the start of the drug war in 2006.

Learning of 24 deaths in 24 hours, after 15 died just days earlier, is causing a continued unrest for citizens living in the war zone.

NSFW - Graphic content.

Five federal police killed in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico



8 men executed in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico




Federal police stand by fallen officers in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico




Police place man in body bag when 8 were killed in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico

Source

This is crazy. What is happening in Mexico is just wild... I didn't know the Cartels had this sort of power.

The smuggling and transshipment of multiton quantities of marijuana and multikilogram quantities of powder cocaine are the principal drug problems in the West Texas HIDTA region. Cocaine and marijuana smuggled through the HIDTA region are distributed in drug markets throughout the country. The amount of cocaine smuggled through and from the HIDTA region decreased from 2005 to 2007, with a notable decrease occurring from 2006 to 2007. This decrease could be due to a temporary suspension of cocaine shipments by a DTO operating in the El Paso/Juárez plaza; large cocaine seizures in transit toward the United States; violent conflicts between competing Mexican DTOs as well as between DTOs and Mexican military and law enforcement personnel; increasing seizures in Mexico; and increased smuggling of the drug to Europe. The amount of marijuana transported through and distributed from the HIDTA appears to be increasing, a development that could be attributed to the increased presence of the Sinaloa Cartel in the El Paso/Juárez plaza over the past several years, which controls many of the production areas in Mexico.
http://www.justice.gov/ndic/pubs27/27514/drugover.htm

Yes it is and has been really bad for a long time.

it really is time to legalize all drugs and make it available cheaply to anyone who wants it

(05-04-2010, 05:30 AM)SidewaysDan Wrote:  This is crazy. What is happening in Mexico is just wild... I didn't know the Cartels had this sort of power.

and thats nothing compared to some south american countries.

i know benny said multi kilo of cocain but i'll bet tons of it crosses the border every month.


and remember the figures are usually based on drugs siezed.

cocain from south america is rife in europe, think how more so it will be in the usa. the cartels are so powerful because of the money these drugs generate.

legalizing coke and weed will lose them cash but as always they'll turn to other drugs. some of which in my opinion should never be legalised.

Mexico is quite a modern country. Not to say, that everyone there lives in paradise but I had this idea that you had some sort of infra-structure (like Brazil).

But the situation is even worse than Brazil. I mean Federal Officers are being shot. Drug Cartels have RPG's and I read somewhere that some even have Kevlar helmets. They're as structured and well-equipped as the army that is fighting them .

just legalize the crap,cut the finance from under the crims.if people want to get out of it ,they do anyway

But then with legalization it will be very easy to smuggle into America. And even if the US legalizes (which is highly unlikely) there is still the cocaine and heroine markets, which generate even more profit.

nono,legalize everything,produce it so cheap it's not worth it smuggling in,end of cartels

But as I said ,you would need full world-wide legalisation, otherwise it would just increase the smuggling because at the source of the drugs it's legal to grow .

in the 80's nancy and ronald came to this country,gave the government 10 million and they changed the law on drugs, .they could do the reverse,just theorizing

(05-04-2010, 09:45 PM)srijantje Wrote:  nono,legalize everything,produce it so cheap it's not worth it smuggling in,end of cartels

Never going to happen.
1. Health care costs would sky rocket.
2. There are far to many government and law enforcement people on the take.
3. It has even been said that governments themselves are responsible for the supply in the first place.
Drugs are big money, big money attracts big money investors. The guys at the top are business men selling a product for profit. MO

yes,you're right,i was just theorizing,but something has to be done about all these horrific situations like in mexico,colombia etc.

Yet, the large majority of the population drinks alcohol. Would you want the large part of the population addicted to Heroine?

I mean I'm pro-cannabis-legalization. But other harder drugs? .

If you legalized opiates, wouldn't the population that's addicted increase?

(05-05-2010, 03:26 AM)SidewaysDan Wrote:  If you legalized opiates, wouldn't the population that's addicted increase?

drugs like e's cocaine, weed and speed could be legalized without much harm.
the opiates as vf rightly says has been a fairly constant addiction on the same amount of people. however when it was available in Victorian time many of those who could get it freely did get it freely. as of now heroine is seen as a dirty drug and many stay away from it. it's a drug of high addiction rate after it's first use. and almost guaranteed addiction rate after its second or third use.

to legalize heroine would turn it into a much cleaner drug in the eyes of the population and more would take it. anyone who sells heroine needs to be wiped off the face of the earth.

anyone who advocates it being legalized is either naive or stupid and i'm sure vf is far from stupid.

i've worked i the clinics and heroine addiction is like nothing you could imagine till you've know two or three people die from it. till you've seen the dead carcass of a junky riddled with flat blue veins and weeping track marks.

heroine should in my mind never be made legal.

Pardon the spelling, but in portuguese there is no difference. Trivial, anyhow.


As you can read from the graph, all the factors are very high in Heroin. How does suggesting to legalize it, going to make less accessible? It will make it cleaner, yes. Better? No.

Heroin is a nasty drug, even when not adulterated.

If cocaine was legalized in all of the World, yes I could see that work. But if only in Mexico, that would create a huge market for cocaine trafficking to the USA/Canada and Europe.

I agree to that extent. But alcohol is widely consumed (as are cannabis and other drugs). Heroin is a far more dangerous drug than alcohol. Most teenagers everywhere go binge drinking earlier than the legal age. If Heroin were legal, they would be able to lay hands on it quite easily.

The problem is that alcohol is not very dangerous when consummed. Heroin is not good for you, and legalization to the masses would indeed put an end to organized crime but would also create alot more addicts.

We're wandering a bit off-topic here... :S

(05-05-2010, 08:15 AM)velvetfog Wrote:  In terms of the amount of violence caused by the people under the influence of it, alcohol is the most dangerous drug around. next to methamphetamine (speed).

People who indulge in opiates are quite peaceful.

The last opium den in New York city was shut down in 1957.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_den

http://vichist.blogspot.com/2009/03/opiu...orian.html

the problem isn't violence vf

and as for the spelling of heroin. i misspelled it and the spell checker took over (i was rushing for the work run.)

the problem is the addiction, the high tolerance the bad withdrawal and the dependence. which in all honesty the graph has arse about tit.

stop a smoker smoking for two days and they can handle it fairly easily if it enforced.
stop a heroin addicts supply for two and see the vast difference in their demeanor.

the violent crimes you speak of. no body mentioned as far as i know that they indulged in violent crimes.

what they do indulge in is soft crimes. selling everything in the house. stealing from family etc. shoplift. conning people. if heroin were widespread it would take hold much worse than alcoholism ever did. it would cause more devastation to the family unit than ever.

to compare heroin to cigarettes is ridiculous. if the same amount of people who smoked took heroine you'd see that visible difference. if you made heroin legal you would see the numbers steadily rise well above the number of smokers you now have.

the cost to the health service wold be dramatic and extremely costly in time and funding. more so that tobacco. wit tobacco a person usually needs treatment near the end of their life. with heroin a person usually needs some kind of treatment for most of their habitual taking life. all the same symptoms as the smoker but for longer and more often.


all the same illnesses as alcoholics but more often and for longer periods.

people who smoke aren't necessarily on welfare. people who take herion are. imagine the cost to the welfare system should it be made illegal.

people who smoke cause harm to the unborn fetus.

so do people who take heroin, only more so. the baby is born an addict and future use would strengthen any habit they get. the child has to do cold turkey and has all the withdrawal symptoms of an adult.
have you ever shared a house for a month with a withdrawing addict? it isn't pleasant. watch trainspotting (a film) and you'll get a little bit of an idea of what it's like. though it airs on the conservative side.

smoking isn't a hallucinogenic drug. heroin is. while alcohol and tobacco has a high tolerance heroin has a higher one and the more you take the worse the come down when you can't get it.

if there is one thing i learned in my misguided life it's this;
an addiction can be could if it doesn't control your life.

heroin controls not only the life of the person who takes it but of those around him. it's a dirty drug. to legalize it would be extremely foolish.

i almost forgot

i've never heard of anyone catching aids from a drink or a cigarette.
nor have i heard of anyone catching hepatitis or a number of other communicable diseases.

i've never heard of a police officer stabbing himself on a pack of winstons while doing a body search. on a needle,, yes.

ask a police officer whats his worst fear when he searches someone and he'll tell you getting stuck with a dirty needle is one of the high listed ones.

(05-05-2010, 09:03 AM)velvetfog Wrote:  Prohibition creates an artificially high price level for the prohibited commodity.
If you were a heroin addict, and needed a fix 3 times a day, and each fix only cost, say, $5, then you would be no more likely to engage in economic crimes than a nicotine addict who needed one or two packs of smokes a day.

Crimes are committed as a result of substance prohibitions.
Criminal activity associated with prohibitions are therefore not a good reason to perpetuate the prohibitions.

so that works out as 15 dollars a day for seven days.

105 dollars. not bad considering heroin addicts struggle to scarpe together even a few dollars a day.

where will they get this hundred a week from and you do know what tolerance in relationship to an addictive drug is don't you?

the tolerance with heroin is a lot worse than it is with smoking.
do you really believe every kid and his dog won't try it if it's legal.

do you know how many underage alcoholics their are? how many under age drinkers and smokers. these legal drugs you're on about

imagine making heroin as freely and cheaply available.

back to the cheapness. have you never seen junkies begging for pennies in order to get enough for a fix. my daughters ex asked her for twenty pence about 30 cents, when she was home last weekend. she told me it broke her heart to see him begging. and thats all he was doing. begging people for 20 pence. she said it looked like he hadn't eaten for a weak.

heroin is dirty drug, the cheaper it becomes the more it gets used. it's often a ploy used by the dealers. they give a small bags away to first time users to try then sell the next bag nice and cheap then sell all their next bags at the full price because the kids hooked.

smoking three cigarettes doesn't have that effect.

no lets turn to the family on welfare;
if one takes heroin the odds are most of them will take it so for a family of four users that would be 420 dollars a week.
1280 dollars a month. it's a guarantee that no one in the hous will be working.

where do you think they get the money. you thing they get that much welfare? you think they dont need a roof. many can't afford a roof. they have no money. not even 5 dollars.

now back to health care;
if you sell heoin legally you'll just put healthcare under a strain it could never recover from/

at present smoking related diseases account for about 15 % or more of the health care bill, it could be as high as 25% i can't remember.
legalize heroin and watch it take over from smoking as the major cost of the health care system.

no,i don't agree with you Bill.I have known people who have been addicted to heroin for 20/30 years.aif you didn't know you would never notice,they go to their job every day,keep themselves healthy.The problem arises when you have to scrape money together for your next fix,then you get the burned out junkie types.why should innocent people suffer,park their car somewhere,come back, find the window smashed in,stereo gone,just because some guy has to pay lots of money for a product that is actually very cheap to manifacture ?Instead he gets some adulterated crap he shoots up and ends up dead.