Ah, sorry. I treat all crits, both given and received, as two parts strangely blended together: one part actual critiquing (so, talking about aesthetic choices, moral issues, spiritual feelings, etc.), the other part basic proofreading -- here, I tried to clarify the divide between the two, since I consider proofreading to be essentially universal, being based on more concrete rules. Thus the expectation that they be responded to immediately, as in they receive the greatest priority if the lines are not to be changed in sense or style, and not as in the temporal sense, since they are, again, based on more concrete rules, and are all focused on fairly superficial errors. I suppose my language was just a little too aggressive.

Please continue any further discussion on proofreading here, so we can refocus on the poem. Thanks, ella

Forgive me for this is not a critique.

Had to google Sallman head. And then I understood.

And 100% agree. I remember reading something college written by a Native American, where he was essentially laughing at the visual many people have of Jesus as a really white, blond Caucasian. He notes Jesus was a Jew, and likely had dark hair and skin like him. I am sure this is true.

As a kid, this view of Jesus always bugged me but I couldn't put on finger on why until later. And your latest revision is a nice, artful way to express that. Just wanted to express that I appreciated it.

Although on more reading. I don't like role model as much as the rest, would consider perhaps "...framed complete with.." Or similar.

Mike

So, a new version is up. I've removed a few bits like the word "false" from the first line. It's provocative in this context and probably unneeded since falseness is implied in the photo-shopping. My spell checker has me hyphenating that word, but I don't know if I should be. I did try to add even more clarity around the topic I'm addressing. However, it feels a bit neutered now. In a way that I don't quite understand yet. So, I'm hoping to get a couple of opinions about whether this clarity feels heavy handed or redundant, and if the poem has the same punch as before. Assuming you thought it had punch to begin with.

Thanks everyone for the help, and for bearing with this process through so many cycles.

>< >< ><

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(07-05-2016, 09:09 AM)aschueler Wrote:  Forgive me for this is not a critique.

Had to google Sallman head.  And then I understood.

And 100% agree. I remember reading something college written by a Native American, where he was essentially laughing at the visual many people have of Jesus as a really white, blond Caucasian.  He notes Jesus was a Jew, and likely had dark hair and skin like him.  I am sure this is true.

As a kid, this view of Jesus always bugged me but I couldn't put on finger on why until later.  And your latest revision is a nice, artful way to express that.  Just wanted to express that I appreciated it.

Although on more reading.  I don't like role model as much as the rest, would consider perhaps "...framed complete with.." Or similar.

Mike

Hey, I just saw this. Sorry for not responding.

Yeah, the role model bit could probably be better, and I'll try out your suggestion for that.

I know, everybody is having to do some googling with this one, and that would probably limit any potential readership. I think that a lot of people have seen the picture, but might not know what it's called.

But, yeah, the blonde haired, blue-eyed Jesus thing was the original impetus for this whole project and it just grew.

Thanks for reading and commenting

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RN: I kept some things that you hated because I really like them. But, I did carefully consider every element of your crit, just being sure to mention that. I'm curious how you feel that the new one reads and if it has the clarity of intent that you were looking for. I hope I fixed the punctuation issues.

As for the image you posted at the end, the 'Savior not made by human hands', it's been growing on me. I kinda' like me a grumpy Jesus! He looks like he has toddlers at home. Thanks for sharing

Hi Lizzie, 

Let me give you a few comments on this latest version.

(06-15-2016, 10:14 AM)lizziep Wrote:  Revision 3

Jesus seems photo-shopped --From what I can tell photoshopped is one word without the hyphen.
to look brighter, lighter—

so light, in fact, he floats.--something you might try here. Maybe a hard return after this line to make the line float in the white space.
It only shows one side--If you chose to do that I would join this line to the two lines below. I think your repetition of side below is bothering me a bit now. How about: "It only shows his profile"

and that makes me wonder
if he hides his ugly side.

He's framed as a role model:
chiseled jaw, cheekbones rising up

to heaven, candlelit eyes
—Mel Gibson blue—

a pillowy gaze without desire
and looking up        to his dad.

I wonder if this face could engage
or enrage empires—

its heroin stare doesn't inspire.
Maybe people look to him to see the light

show—the radiant show, the halo show, --I wonder if show and its repetitions are really helping. This is a 4 on a scale of 1-10 issue for me so it's a minor thing. What if you simply cut show in each instance?
the skin show—fair faced

and gleaming in his Hampton Whites,
in a time long before bleach.

Those are my only comments on the revision.

Best,

Todd

(07-27-2016, 06:31 AM)Todd Wrote:  show—the radiant show, the halo show, --I wonder if show and its repetitions are really helping. This is a 4 on a scale of 1-10 issue for me so it's a minor thing. What if you simply cut show in each instance?
the skin show—fair faced

I did try it and I wasn't satisfied. But, if they intrude, I will find a way to cut them. Necessity, mothers, and all.

Thanks so much for coming back to it ><

I like that white space idea, too. I'll play with that. Thanks!

I think my earlier feeling on this being better as a general critique was a little unfair -- certainly, a poem on that topic would be great, but this alone is already good, and on this new reading (not the new edition, which I think on this point remained the same) I no longer had any doubts as to what the poem referred to. But yes, photoshopped. Other points:

The that of the earlier crit, I'm still somewhat missing, but that's just me. Rhythmically, I realize it's much floatier without.

Again, that third stanza: Exactly! And I'm in the camp of keeping the repeated sides, as it enhances the feeling that, hey, this Jesus person, maybe he has two sides.....kind of like the first, "clean" side is the side of the picture, and the second is, well, plain ugly.

Still not too sure about the punctuation of the fifth (the "emphasis" on Mel Gibson is only a detraction to me), but my unease regarding the modernity of "Mel Gibson blue" has been swayed. Lovely choice.

Swayed too, on that seemingly unnecessary space -- I think I mischaracterized the speaker on that earlier read. Plus, it does make the eyes move as if it were moving up, which is a bonus. 

But those last two line-by-lines still stand. The "show, show, show" thing is still too ugh, and the last comma is still unnecessary (in fact, I think the added fluidity in losing that comma enhances the ending's punch, as it's begun properly on "Maybe"). 

And as a general point, I wonder how that first crit would have been influenced if I was intro'd to the head immediately, rather than having to remember it and all that....That is, I wonder how posting the Head itself before even the title would influence things.

Thanks for the read, the response, the second read!