Milton said he wanted to justify the ways of God to man. And it worked for me. So why am I so alone?

Loneliness is next to Godliness...?

Something like that.

I'll justify the ways of God to man. So you better tell your wife to watch her precious little ass.

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Don Juan is pronounced [Don] Jew-Anne. And I've had a Jewish girlfriend before, so let me tell you. The going is good when the going gets good. That's what I mean by Romantic.

Most cynics I know (including myself) are really romantics who are just constantly disappointed by the world and therefore projecting the disappointment as a bitter shield.

I don't need God to tell me that things should be better. We do what we can in our own small spheres and hope that the shield is strong enough.

I am not sure what you agreeing with Milton has to do with your being alone. It may have more to do with your living situation, hygiene or personality. If nothing else works, become filthy rich as it is a known cure for loneliness .

What I'm saying is that according to Milton, God and Satan really exist. And when I say I feel alone, I mean that I don't know anyone who believes in God or Satan. Even the stuckup church-goers think it's just trite metaphor.

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And Jewish girls don't believe in Satan or Hell. So they can just fuck me and all my friends and run off and call their kid Ishmael and think that's OK.

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It's hard to be rebellious these days because God and all authorities are all like: Cool beans, dude. Balls to the wall, bra. . . . And so people'll probably say, Then, what's the problem? . . . But have you ever had to put your balls to a wall?

(03-12-2016, 08:11 AM)Leanne Wrote:  Most cynics I know (including myself) are really romantics who are just constantly disappointed by the world and therefore projecting the disappointment as a bitter shield.

I don't need God to tell me that things should be better.  We do what we can in our own small spheres and hope that the shield is strong enough.

I sense my insufferable idealism slowly becoming some shade of cynicism.  And I don't know how I feel about that.  I feel some kind of growing bitterness towards the world for being able to change me; to shake what was once so unwavering.  But if the cynicism is just a shield to keep my more softer parts from harm, maybe I can think of it then as just necessity.  But what happens if, within the confines of yourself and this shield upheld around, you start to self-annihilate?  How do you keep from that?  What's the antidote.  Surely more than what poetry alone cannot satiate. 

When did the cynicism start setting in for everyone else?  Maybe I'm late to the party at 23.

I'm not cynical at all, and started this thread on the strength of something richer than idealism or religion or all the centuries of poetry has had to offer so far. . . . If you want to know what that is, you're going to have to wait until me or you accomplish it. I'm not cynical enough to count that out.

God? Love? The knowledge that the two are interchangeable? I think I can still find that in poetry. Give us sleepy sinners a clue.

For certain nothing that can be found in a church.

That you're going to come up with something for yourself. That I have to. That anyone who wants to write poetry or even survive these days has to. One romantic notion is that's it's even possible. The most common result is you'll come up with some run of the mill schizophrenic sounding mumbo jumbo.

Well, that's all the more viable than expected.

I get in with a lot of visionary poet types. The way I talk and live my life draws them to me. And a lot of their stuff is the disjointed kind of schizophrenic nonsense. I still believe there's a better way.

Can't help thnking of Kingsley Amis's "The Green Man," wherein God (personified) replies to Maurice's grousing about how the world works with something on the lines of, "I'd like to see you do better, given the necessity of making a set of decisions that are not only unprecedented but irrevocable."

(Oh, here it is - Google is our friend - not quite as remembered, but close)

I don't want to be God. I just much prefer a world where there's a God that punishes us for writing rebellious poems and shuns and or kills us for writing bad poems or not even trying.

I feel as if I have understand about four percent of the discussion taking place here. That four percent is extremely interesting.

Taking the clear-cut portions literally.... Do you really not know anyone who believes in God or Satan? And is writing bad poetry deserving of death? Is any producer of terrible "art" worthy of punishment? I have trouble accepting any art as good without a bad example to compare it against. At the moment, I have not found any art that is not subjective.

I have long considered myself a cynic, and I think Leanne's definition is horrifyingly accurate to me.


Anyway, could you possibly explain your question a little better?

I don't know anyone who believes in God or Satan. I don't know anyone who writes or reads poetry. I live in a world where whatever you say or do is cool with everybody else and nothing ever happens. Everybody is nice. If you're sick and dying lots of people will come to your bedside and cry and say, I'm so sorry this is happening to you, man. And nothing ever happens. Everybody is understanding, and bright, and knowing, and nice. Everything is fun and easy and nice every day and every night and it always has been and always will be forever.

Well gee, I'd like to live in a world where everybody is nice, understanding, and bright. But I am one of those condescending jerks who believes he is surrounded by idiots that would love nothing more than to have something happen all of the time, and create useless drama just for the sake of having something happen.

All this makes you feel alone, apparently? And you want to know why it does? I think the question may be better suited for therapists/psychologists than poets. I can't really be the one to provide you with any guidance in the religious department, but I don't think that's really what you're asking about anyway. Nevertheless, I can assure you that there are many people who do believe in God and Satan as being real and not simple metaphors. There may not be as many as you would like, however.

I must say that this all very confusing. I can't tell if you're asking about why you feel alone in the world or in your opinions about poetry.

(03-12-2016, 03:23 PM)UselessBlueprint Wrote:  Well gee, I'd like to live in a world where everybody is nice, understanding, and bright. But I am one of those condescending jerks who believes he is surrounded by idiots that would love nothing more than to have something happen all of the time, and create useless drama just for the sake of having something happen.

All this makes you feel alone, apparently? And you want to know why it does? I think the question may be better suited for therapists/psychologists than poets. I can't really be the one to provide you with any guidance in the religious department, but I don't think that's really what you're asking about anyway. Nevertheless, I can assure you that there are many people who do believe in God and Satan as being real and not simple metaphors. There may not be as many as you would like, however.

I must say that this all very confusing. I can't tell if you're asking about why you feel alone in the world or in your opinions about poetry.

As he explained, he wants to know why he feels alone in believing what Milton said.
Do you believe what Milton said?

That's just it though. Milton wrote it. I don't doubt that he did. Do I feel the need to do justify the ways of God? No. Is it a goal/purpose of my writing? No. What I fail to understand is how the desire/need to justify the ways of God to man (within or without poetry) would make someone feel alone? I don't see any correlation between the two. Perhaps the how and why are entangled, but I have no idea how the feeling of being alone relates. It seems like any interesting topic to discuss, but I just don't understand the premise here.

(03-12-2016, 03:49 PM)UselessBlueprint Wrote:  That's just it though. Milton wrote it. I don't doubt that he did. Do I feel the need to do justify the ways of God? No. Is it a goal/purpose of my writing? No. What I fail to understand is how the desire/need to justify the ways of God to man (within or without poetry) would make someone feel alone? I don't see any correlation between the two. Perhaps the how and why are entangled, but I have no idea how the feeling of being alone relates. It seems like any interesting topic to discuss, but I just don't understand the premise here.

That is the premise. The romantic world is gone. You no longer understand it. He still does. He is alone.