Is there such a thing as using it too much, a place where it's not your work anymore?
Anything to avoid doing with critique? What is proper moral etiquette if you use a lot or a little? Crediting? I have questions...and I'm not even sure what I'm asking.XD

Yes there is such a thing as being too open to what other people say about your work. That's why after a bit once you get some of the basics down you should consider letting time lapse between your revisions (1-6 months at least).

Here's what you have to keep in focus: What am I trying to say, and why do I think each particular choice I make is important?

If people point out areas that you agree are not working than fix those. If they offer suggestions sometimes you can adopt those. Sometimes those suggestions will pull the poem away from what you're shooting for. In those instances, you need to come up with your own solution to the problem.

I think just thanking people and acknowledging that you're adopting their ideas is fine. It doesn't become their work. If you agree with them analyze what they did, and why it works better. Part of this is to develop the skills in workshopping so you can be more intentional and deliberate with what you do. The truth is the extreme majority of early poems are like painters copying the masters. It takes time to innovate. What you create in the early years should be saved and reflected on, but much of it has little artistic value on its own merits. So, I'd say its a legitimate concern that you raise, but by the time you get more practiced you'll know where to draw the line.

Time between revisions usually gives you the distance you need to revise properly. Though even that isn't a hard and fast always true thing, just a mostly true thing.

Okay, well at least I don't have to worry about it for awhile, heheh. I had thought that part of the learning process was taking a lot of critique and applying, which I guess in turn teaches you how to do it (mostly) on your own. Thanks for taking the time to respond, I was just wondering.

I never edited or received critiques on my poems before joining this site so I tend to over-edit because it's fun and interesting. I read the critiques multiple times and when I agree with them, which is often, I try to implement the suggested changes. Sometimes I improve the piece and sometimes I nearly kill it, but at least I'm getting a bit better at  knowing the difference.

After multiple edits I look at the original and ask myself if I'm closer or further from my goal. Sometimes I chuck it all and work from the original again and sometimes the last edit is much closer to a finished piece.

I try not to use the exact word someone might offer, but if I really try and can't think of anything better I will take what is offered and use it. It's still my choice and my work. I stick to my guns when I think it is best for the poem and make changes when I agree with the weak spots that are pointed out. It's nice to credit the crit on the site: Edit 1 (milo, todd, sockfairy) for example, but the poem is yours.

So do what you want but keep everything and think hard about each crit, each change and what you want out of the poem.

my 2 cents.

That was helpful, gave me a clearer idea how to go about the editing process. Thanks!

ahh . . . what to do with critique. On the one hand, everyone is talking about you and your poem - you are the belle of the ball - but still, some think perhaps it could be better(?!) What is this? My beautiful poem could be even better? Poppycock!

So, anyway, I know many think of a poem as a written, static entity. Perhaps I could move this comma, change a line break, etc. They nod politely and thank you for the hour or so you spent reading their poem thoughtfully and carefully devising a critique that wouldn't send them running to hit the "report" button but was still helpful, while moving on with their lives.

Did you know there are sites out there that won't let you post a revised version until months have passed. REVISIONS TAKE TIME AND DISTANCE - they decree and cast these words as dogma. They will repeat them forcefully until you, too, start repeating the mantra. Is this true? Is it impossible to improve a poem until months have passed?

Here are my thoughts - we are a social community here. We could be focused on birds but instead we are focused on poetry. We like talking about it for some unknown reason. We will often fight about it for reasons known only to those who have been here. If you see a suggestion that makes you think of a way to make your poem better, why not try it? Try it as soon as it occurs to you. if you don't like it, change it back - or try something else. The original is never truly gone anymore. billy has sworn a blood oath to me that pigpenpoetry.com will archive my posts through eternity. If you would like to acknowledge your inspiration or help or whatever, a "thank you" goes far or, a return critique goes farther or, paying it forward to the next member goes farther still.

Have i begun rambling yet? Wait, where are my chops and beer?

if i get feedback and i see it's obvious merit, i'm fine with a quick edit, after that; and for a more in depth edit if warranted, i'll leave it at least a week or so. after a while newbs get to see things like cliche and missing rhymes and bad syntax themselves and tend to sin less in those areas. for me a good rule of thumb is this, if most pick up on a point in the poem, be it a good point or bad, they'll probably be nearer the truth than an odd naysayer...not all the time of course but more often than not. if someone leaves a suggestion on a re wording to to syntax or excess wordage, take heed, if you like how it works; either use the suggestion or write in a similar way [no accreditation needed] in general we just say ' thanks to those who gave imput'
at days end you the poet are the boss, though always be of a mind that the best bosses are able to take and use advice as needed and discard advice when unnecessary it all comes with practice, i sort of get the feeling you'll do okay

Milo,
I think I'm following what your saying, though do to lack of experience, the mantra is floating a little freely, i do value your and everyone's input here though, and do my best to keep it all in mind, and savour every tasty tid bit of knowledge someone's willing to drop.

Billy,
Thanks again for insightful advice, and the encouragement, as it's all new to me, I have nothing of value to add to the discussion other than honestly, I'll try to keep it all in mind.

While looking for something else I came across a few threads you might be interested in.

How Do You Edit?

why do we post here and wtf point

Why Workshop?

Thanks, those are interesting!

On the subject of editing, and the emphasis on taking time with it..

Am I revising too much? I can see how horrible my poetry is, and with critique that I've received
(Thank you all so much btw) where I am still so new, feel like applying what I just learned can make a huge difference in the writing. I'm sure I'll be coming back to these in weeks/months years..ahead, but if I know I can make it better than it was right now, should I be waiting and just applying that new knowledge to future poetry? I read something along those lines in the editing thread...

Everyone is different, what's fun for you? I'd go with that, but I'm an editing freak and here for my own amusement.

Haha, I'm here for fun, this is all so much fun to me! Thanks for taking the time for my questions!

When you're just starting to get into the concept of workshopping, think of it more as experimenting than editing. Play around, see what you like, see what you don't like, insult tectak, pull things apart and put them back together in weird ways, be absurd, be rude and crude, turn freeverse into sonnets, turn sonnets into limericks, insult tectak a bit more, and just play.

If you stop having fun, find something that makes it fun. Personally, I quite enjoy insulting tectak.

I'd forgotten the editing thread existed.

I really liked this point you made, Leanne:

"The most important piece of advice, however, is this: don't take out the "you". Inject yourself into everything you write. I don't mean that every poem should be autobiographical -- of course not, that would be dull -- but every poem should have your own unique flair, something that sets it apart from the generic, something that convinces the reader that you actually care about the subject and about the reader's enjoyment."

Thanks Leanne, Todd,
Definitly a lot to think over, but I am having fun learning and experimenting! just wait till I finish my sonnet, Im just hoping it doesn't make your eyes bleed.XD

With the things that we've seen, our eyes are inured to sonnety horribleness so don't worry

(06-20-2015, 07:25 AM)Leanne Wrote:  With the things that we've seen, our eyes are inured to sonnety horribleness so don't worry

http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/thread-14255.html

I said seen, not done -- how very dare you!

(06-17-2015, 04:26 AM)queenconstantine Wrote:  Okay, well at least I don't have to worry about it for awhile, heheh. I had thought that part of the learning process was taking a lot of critique and applying, which I guess in turn teaches you how to do it (mostly) on your own. Thanks for taking the time to respond, I was just wondering.

    From the 69th edition of the Immoral Etiquette Handbook:

    Rule 42: Ask questions whose answer you already know solely for the amusement of watching others flail* about.



*But this being PigPen and all, let me assure you that said flailing is sincerely intended to be both salient and informed.

(06-20-2015, 03:15 PM)rayheinrich Wrote:  

(06-17-2015, 04:26 AM)queenconstantine Wrote:  Okay, well at least I don't have to worry about it for awhile, heheh. I had thought that part of the learning process was taking a lot of critique and applying, which I guess in turn teaches you how to do it (mostly) on your own. Thanks for taking the time to respond, I was just wondering.

    From the 69th edition of the Immoral Etiquette Handbook:

    Rule 42: Ask questions whose answer you already know solely for the amusement of watching others flail* about.



*But this being PigPen and all, let me assure you that said flailing is sincerely intended to be both salient and informed.

What's a day without a good flail?