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+--- Thread: Tanka 21st July (/thread-11111.html)
Tanka 21st July - Magpie - 07-21-2013
many times
fly asks window
same question -
each reply
is solid
RE: Tanka 21st July - cidermaid - 07-21-2013
For contents this one got a chuckle from me.
I am not very up on the tanka form.
I know that (that like me) you are in the process of being set free from the stricter syllable count in this type of poetic form. So I thought it would be interesting to see where you are currently in your journey with this.
So here is my question:
One of the things I am trying to make my mind up on (and this is one of personal preference) is, should a Tanka, senyru or haiku keep some form of discipline in terms of a syllable count even if the count has been modified from the standard accepted count.
So for example we have both recently managed to write so efforts that are non standard
Your example here offers a count of: 3 /4/ 3/ 3 / 3. (As against the prescribed standard of a Tanka being 5/7/5/7/7 and according to my Google search! uses simile, metaphor and personification.).
To my ear and eye your offering still has a leaning towards a pattern that is identifiably tanka. I just wondered if this was pre-planned or had just evolved as you wrote. I ask because I perceive we are at a similar stage of experimentation with these forms.
Cheers and all the best AJ.
RE: Tanka 21st July - Magpie - 07-22-2013
(07-21-2013, 11:47 PM)cidermaid Wrote: For contents this one got a chuckle from me.Hi AJ,
I am not very up on the tanka form.
I know that (that like me) you are in the process of being set free from the stricter syllable count in this type of poetic form. So I thought it would be interesting to see where you are currently in your journey with this.
So here is my question:
One of the things I am trying to make my mind up on (and this is one of personal preference) is, should a Tanka, senyru or haiku keep some form of discipline in terms of a syllable count even if the count has been modified from the standard accepted count.
So for example we have both recently managed to write so efforts that are non standard
Your example here offers a count of: 3 /4/ 3/ 3 / 3. (As against the prescribed standard of a Tanka being 5/7/5/7/7 and according to my Google search! uses simile, metaphor and personification.).
To my ear and eye your offering still has a leaning towards a pattern that is identifiably tanka. I just wondered if this was pre-planned or had just evolved as you wrote. I ask because I perceive we are at a similar stage of experimentation with these forms.
Cheers and all the best AJ.
I'm very glad you have asked these specific questions because I have been thinking about a lot of these aspects. I remember when you mentioned a couple of times in the past about your reluctance to veer from the 5-7-5 structure and at the time I was glad to hear that because I thought I was the only one, therefore I am equally glad that we have both come to the same conclusion independently as regards moving away from it at the same time.
I learnt more about haiku here than I have done anywhere else and in particular from Fogglethorpe who as well as writing excellent haikus seemed to stress that efficiency was the essence that I should be going for. Originally when I started writing haiku it was the structure that appealed to me for I didn't write anything else with structure in that sense. It would seem logical though that because in original Japanese the structure still exists that I am therefore neglecting an integral part of it and I have toyed with the idea of using a 3-5-3 structure to keep that element. But even then at times when I tried that I felt it could always be shortened further so I seem to have unconsciously abandoned the notion of structure literally in the past two weeks and it kind of feels right. Also on various blogs around the net it seems that every man and his dog and cat are writing haiku, except they are merely 17 syllables in three lines and after I'd read hundreds and hundreds of shit 17 syllable poems, I think it kind of made me more protective of what it should be. I even made a statement by posting this:
This is not haiku,
just seventeen syllables
spread over three lines.
and then a wiki link to haiku, but people thought it was ingenious haiku, so I gave up.
As regards my tanka, I didn't realise that it had a definite structure until you pointed it out, it started out something like
A thousand times
fly has asked the window
the same question again
the answer comes back
always solidly.
And then started to strip away what was not necessary. Also I seemed to have adopted Fogglethorpes hyphen as indication of the cut, even though I don't think I as yet fully comprehend that aspect. I'm only new to tanka so I may have a few things wrong but from what I can gather the first part of the poem has to stand as a poem in it's own right, originally tanka were written by two people, first would write the 5-7-5 ie haiku, senryu then a second person would write the 7-7 part. And in saying that I've just looked at mine and it could be argued that the last two lines are unnecessary because you could reach the same conclusion perhaps.
I feel as though I've wrote a hell of alot here and am not sure if I answered all your questions. Hope this is of some help and it would be interesting to hear what others think like Fogglethorpe or Ray or anyone who is further down that road of understanding in these short forms.
Also must say that it's really good to see lots of people posting in this forum again, at one point I was going round asking people to write haiku so I would feel more comfortable posting mine.
The poems may be brief but my replies are anything but.
Cheers
Mark
(07-22-2013, 12:43 AM)trueenigma Wrote:Hi thanks for the kind comments. I'm still learning about this form of poetry but am enjoying writing it and this one just seemed to appear very easily with an element of good fortune also, it's almost like I didn't write it, it just happened, I wish I could learn the trick to be able to do that more often, it would save a hell of a lot of effort.(07-21-2013, 07:13 PM)ambrosial revelation Wrote: many timesI'm not too familiar with the form, but Tanka or not, I love the poem!
fly asks window
same question -
each reply
is solid
RE: Tanka 21st July - Volaticus - 07-22-2013
(07-21-2013, 07:13 PM)ambrosial revelation Wrote: many timesHi AR,
fly asks window
same question -
each reply
is solid
I must admit that I don't know much about tanka. But that aside, I love your poem. The last two lines I thought was humorously clever and made me laugh. I've got no critique to offer, I love your poem just as it is. Very sharp.
Best,
Louise
RE: Tanka 21st July - Magpie - 07-22-2013
(07-22-2013, 06:02 AM)Volaticus Wrote:Hi Louise,(07-21-2013, 07:13 PM)ambrosial revelation Wrote: many timesHi AR,
fly asks window
same question -
each reply
is solid
I must admit that I don't know much about tanka. But that aside, I love your poem. The last two lines I thought was humorously clever and made me laugh. I've got no critique to offer, I love your poem just as it is. Very sharp.
Best,
Louise
Thank you, I can't ask for better than people to say don't edit. In fact I think it may be the first time that's happened. In all honesty I could've helped the fly to find the open window but I needed my poem first. Thanks again.
Mark
RE: Tanka 21st July - billy - 07-23-2013
i think a tanka originally was just a short poem and in time became a game poem for two of more people as you state above. often it was used as a form of communication between friends or lovers.
the format like the haiku and senryu (57577)are an english idea, and it's common for them to be seen only as guidelines .
i think it's great how you cut it to it's bare bones and still retained the humour of the thing, i think the first line could be the first of the third line. but it does work well as is, i really enjoyed it. great job.
RE: Tanka 21st July - Magpie - 07-24-2013
(07-23-2013, 10:15 AM)billy Wrote: i think a tanka originally was just a short poem and in time became a game poem for two of more people as you state above. often it was used as a form of communication between friends or lovers.Hi Billy, thanks for the kind comments. I'm glad that I have eventually decided to leave behind the 5-7-5 shackles although it took me a while to get there, so many thanks for persevering. I didn't know about tanka being a form of communication so thanks for that info.
the format like the haiku and senryu (57577)are an english idea, and it's common for them to be seen only as guidelines .
i think it's great how you cut it to it's bare bones and still retained the humour of the thing, i think the first line could be the first of the third line. but it does work well as is, i really enjoyed it. great job.
Mark