Edit 1
I stood there like a boy,
in reality I am
standing at the edge of a murky ditch
debating whether to jump
I hesitantly sit
on a blood stained bench
my own blood dressing me
next to a killer, a thief
in pre-book one
impatiently waiting to go up
I fondly reminisce
how I played in that ditch
shamelessly muddy,
my mother would scream how I make her worry
she'd say "son! The ditch is for dirt and ditch-diggers,"
I'd say "but mom there's tadpoles,"
No matter what she said
I wouldn't listen.
I grew up into a tadpole that night,
reborn in a new kind of ditch
when they told me to strip
lift my nutsack, now cough,
when they gave me a jumpsuit
double XL for a large,
when I carried my life in a knapsack
up an elevator with no buttons,
when I stood outside the glass wall penetrated
by looking eyes of childish freedom.
They'd say "wassup dog,
you bang?" I met a tadpole:
Panda Locs East Side Fresno
was his full name.
I wondered what kind of man
chose such a name,
what kind of name he would've chosen
had he not been a tadpole.
As he rushed into battle
I put my thoughts aside
and let hands collide.
30 days in the ditch passes quick for a tadpole,
I trade a jumpsuit for my name
with the cut of a wristband I'm free
to be a tadpole or frog,
I daydream of kissing a princess,
transforming into a man,
but lifes no fairy tale,
there are no princesses.
As I step into a forgotten sun
and hear the bustle of the city
I fondly reminisce
how I played in that ditch
and light a stale cigarette.
Original
I stood there like a boy,
in reality I am,
standing at the edge of a murky ditch
debating whether to jump
I hesitantly sit
on a blood stained bench
I fondly reminisce
how I played in that ditch
shamelessly muddy,
my mother would scream how I make her worry
she'd say "son! The ditch is for dirt and ditch-diggers,"
I'd say "but mom there's tadpoles,"
No matter what she said
I wouldn't listen.
I played in that ditch all my life,
we'd move I'd find a new one
with little tadpoles that never grow.
I grew up into a tadpole
squirming in the ditch
with fellow tadpoles,
they'd say "wassup dog,
you bang?" I met a tadpole:
Panda Locs East Side Fresno
was his full name.
30 days in the ditch passes quick for a tadpole,
they tell me be a frog and ribbet,
eat a fly or something, anything,
but I'm a tadpole
I just wanna squiggle
in the ditch
with my fellow young tadpoles.
(07-26-2016, 11:54 AM)Weeded Wrote: [ -> ]I stood there like a boy,
in reality I am,
standing at the edge of a murky ditch
debating whether to jump - L2, L4, L5, L6 are a little bit disconnected because of the flash forward / reminiscing. I think it is a little bit distracting possibly introducing the reminiscing before would make it flow easier for the reader.
I hesitantly sit
on a blood stained bench - it's doesn't become clear in the poem why the bench is blood stained.
I fondly reminisce
how I played in that ditch
shamelessly muddy,
my mother would scream how I make her worry
she'd say "son! The ditch is for dirt and ditch-diggers,"
I'd say "but mom there's tadpoles,"
No matter what she said
I wouldn't listen.
I played in that ditch all my life,
we'd move I'd find a new one
with little tadpoles that never grow.
I grew up into a tadpole
squirming in the ditch
with fellow tadpoles,
they'd say "wassup dog,
you bang?" I met a tadpole:
Panda Locs East Side Fresno
was his full name.
30 days in the ditch passes quick for a tadpole,
they tell me be a frog and ribbet,
eat a fly or something, anything,
but I'm a tadpole
I just wanna squiggle
in the ditch
with my fellow young tadpoles. - I like this stanza because it tells me something about staying true to self and young even in the face of age and change and is consistent with the message I get from the poem.
Thanks for sharing your poem. I'm a newbie at reviewing other people's poetry so please use / discard anything I have mentioned as you see fit.
Weedy,
I think you need to drop the attempt the attempt at cleverness at the beginning, it comes across as very obvious and thus to no purpose. There is nothing in the poem that ties the ideas presented to anything concrete. The reader is left to guess what tadpoles mean, outside of immature frogs. Obviously and hopefully this is suppose to be more than a recitation about the life cycle of frogs, yet the poem gives the reader little to make of it beyond that. Could I guess? Certainly. But when I have to guess it opens the door to hundreds of possibilities and when something can mean that many things it becomes meaningless. As the other critic insightfully pointed out, the blood stain on the bench is just left hanging there as though it is suppose to mean something, but it does not. This seems a microcosm for the entire poem. When a poem needs to be explained, as this one does, it has failed in it's task. I hope you will revise it, I am curious to see what this is about.
Best,
dale
Wipmp,
Thank you for the feedback, I will work on connecting the poem so its a bit more cohesive,
mike
Erthona,
Thanks for the feedback, I'll definitely be working on this one, your comments are much appreciated,
mike
(07-26-2016, 11:54 AM)Weeded Wrote: [ -> ]Edit 1
I stood there like a boy,
in reality I am
standing at the edge of a murky ditch
debating whether to jump
I hesitantly sit
on a blood stained bench
my own blood dressing me
next to a killer, a thief
in pre-book one
impatiently waiting to go up
I fondly reminisce
how I played in that ditch
shamelessly muddy,
my mother would scream how I make her worry
she'd say "son! The ditch is for dirt and ditch-diggers,"
I'd say "but mom there's tadpoles,"
No matter what she said
I wouldn't listen.
I grew up into a tadpole that night, - This metaphor could be stronger if it were more clear what you were before you "grew up into a tadpole". Were you a man or a boy?
reborn in a new kind of ditch
when they told me to strip
lift my nutsack, now cough,
when they gave me a jumpsuit
double XL for a large,
when I carried my life in a knapsack
up an elevator with no buttons,
when I stood outside the glass wall penetrated
by looking eyes of childish freedom. – It is not clear to me what glass wall or whether you are inside or outside.
They'd say "wassup dog,
you bang?" I met a tadpole:
Panda Locs East Side Fresno
was his full name.
I wondered what kind of man
chose such a name,
what kind of name he would've chosen
had he not been a tadpole.
As he rushed into battle – It is not clear to me what battle he rushed into.
I put my thoughts aside
and let hands collide.
30 days in the ditch passes quick for a tadpole,
I trade a jumpsuit for my name
with the cut of a wristband I'm free
to be a tadpole or frog,
I daydream of kissing a princess,
transforming into a man,
but lifes no fairy tale,
there are no princesses.
As I step into a forgotten sun
and hear the bustle of the city
I fondly reminisce
how I played in that ditch
and light a stale cigarette.
Hi Weedy, I like what you have done with the poem. It is much clearer now. I do think that you may want to adjust the punctuation line by line. Some lines are punctuated and others are left a little bit too open in my opinion. So the punctuation comes across a little bit randomly now. Good work so far. Look forward to reading your next version.
This is a gangster poem without the verve, the depth, or the anxiety of the usual, and with a lot of carelessness with regards to punctuation (really, why only use periods in those last three stanzas? Why so many run-ons? And "life's no fairy tale"!) and the use of imagery (so the first stanza is a sort of prologue -- would be effective if the whole ditch angle wasn't clarified on second stanza after it, or if the ditch itself was what was central to the tadpole metaphor [not even a description of, what, the ghetto?] -- also, where the hell did that fairy tale thing come from?). Plus, the character gets to think about his childhood, then he thinks about joining the gang (tying it very, very poorly to a very, very shaky metaphor), then, what, he's free? And all we get on those instigating moments of violence are hints (and terribly, terribly vague ones -- what if our character was blood stained because, what, he shot himself or something? And is the killer next to him even related?)? No sense of movement, and nothing real to pull us in. Again, no verve, no depth, no anxiety -- big failure. Also, "hands collide" -- so he clapped? so he washed his hands?
(07-28-2016, 12:27 AM)RiverNotch Wrote: [ -> ]This is a gangster poem without the verve, the depth, or the anxiety of the usual, and with a lot of carelessness with regards to punctuation (really, why only use periods in those last three stanzas? Why so many run-ons? And "life's no fairy tale"!) and the use of imagery (so the first stanza is a sort of prologue -- would be effective if the whole ditch angle wasn't clarified on second stanza after it, or if the ditch itself was what was central to the tadpole metaphor [not even a description of, what, the ghetto?] -- also, where the hell did that fairy tale thing come from?). Plus, the character gets to think about his childhood, then he thinks about joining the gang (tying it very, very poorly to a very, very shaky metaphor), then, what, he's free? And all we get on those instigating moments of violence are hints (and terribly, terribly vague ones -- what if our character was blood stained because, what, he shot himself or something? And is the killer next to him even related?)? No sense of movement, and nothing real to pull us in. Again, no verve, no depth, no anxiety -- big failure. Also, "hands collide" -- so he clapped? so he washed his hands?
RN,
Thank you for the viable critique. I've been mulling over your thoughts the past couple days with a bit of frustration. This was not meant to be a gangster poem, despite the content. The fact is I've failed to provide my message clearly, and everytime I try a rewrite I get nowhere. The lack of punctuation was due to my idea of delivery, I saw myself reciting this almost as a rap in that I wouldn't pause much through lines. I thought I might be able to get away with the run-ons but I have not it seems. And I had a last minute idea of connecting 'frog' with the old fables of the princess kissing the frog, I could say in hindsight the 'hands collide'bit was very last-minute as well. And the character in the poem did not once contemplate(nor did he) joining a gang, I'm curious how you interpreted that bit.. I was also trying to approach the violence as very normal, a pedestrian act to the character. I was not trying to center around the violence itself but the connection between the characters childhood joys with tadpoles in a ditch and the characters new joys in violence with other 'tadpoles' in his new 'ditch'(which was not to symbolize a gang, but jail..). Its like Erthona said, if a poem must be explained its failed. I hate to explain myself but ive honestly been trying to rewrite this these past couple days with no success whatsoever. So if you could take what Im saying and perhaps provide some insight, maybe a different approach or something, it'd be greatly appreciated because it seems what I'm trying is not working so far aha. Thanks again for the critique, its been extremely helpful,
mike
(07-26-2016, 11:54 AM)Weeded Wrote: [ -> ]Edit 1
I stood there like a boy,
in reality I am
standing at the edge of a murky ditch
debating whether to jump -- I do feel like the interpretation of this is impacted by the punctuation, or lack thereof. It's not clear what "reality" is referring to. It could read "I stood there like a boy. In reality I am standing at the edge of a murky ditch..." or it could read "I stood there like a boy (in reality I am), standing at the edge of a murky ditch..." Also, you have a stood/standing problem, and you need to clarify if this is happening in the past or the present. I suspect it's a bit of both, but right now it's just confusing.
I hesitantly sit -- here you have an inconsistency with the final stanza where the speaker says they are stepping out into the sun (being released, I presume). But, here the speaker is being booked. But, they're both stated in the present tense.
on a blood stained bench
my own blood dressing me -- I feel like you're alluding to previous events that led to the booking of the speaker. Is this accurate? If so, maybe a line or two explaining how the speaker ended up in this predicament. If you don't want to go there, then this reference should be dropped.
next to a killer, a thief
in pre-book one
impatiently waiting to go up -- here I'm wondering where "up" is. Going before the judge, I'm assuming? I'm having to assume a lot, and I presume that much of it is incorrect.
I fondly reminisce -- I think you need to place the speaker in time and space here. Sitting in a cell? Is this a continuation of place from the last stanza? If feels disconnected, but it's actually a crucial part of the story.
how I played in that ditch
shamelessly muddy,
my mother would scream how I make her worry
she'd say "son! The ditch is for dirt and ditch-diggers,"
I'd say "but mom there's tadpoles,"
No matter what she said
I wouldn't listen. -- I think that the ditch could work well as a metaphor for the dirtiness of life. The mother's admonitions and the speaker's strong nature make for a compelling backstory. I want this to be an actual ditch with actual dirt so that there's some kind of physical reality to use as a launching pad for the ditch metaphor.
I grew up into a tadpole that night, -- you haven't previously talked about this night, that I'm aware of, so it doesn't work to refer back to it. You need to place this within the context of the broader narrative (which you need to tell instead of alluding). I would also think about "became one of the tadpoles" instead of "grew up into one." It's throwing me off because tadpoles are babies.
reborn in a new kind of ditch
when they told me to strip
lift my nutsack, now cough,
when they gave me a jumpsuit
double XL for a large,
when I carried my life in a knapsack
up an elevator with no buttons, -- These last 8 lines provide great detail. This is more of the detail that you need, placing the speaker and giving the reader a narrative to connect to.
when I stood outside the glass wall penetrated
by looking eyes of childish freedom. -- the phrasing of these last two lines is very awkward. Especially in the context of a poem about prison, penetrated makes me think of sex, and I'm not sure that's what you're going for. Who is looking? I think that the freedom/prison juxtaposition could yield good things.
They'd say "wassup dog, -- specify who "they" is. I'm assuming it's other tadpoles?
you bang?" I met a tadpole:
Panda Locs East Side Fresno
was his full name.
I wondered what kind of man -- later you say that the speaker is not a man but still a tadpole, but here you're referring to this character as both a man and a tadpole. I'd clear up this discrepancy.
chose such a name,
what kind of name he would've chosen
had he not been a tadpole. -- I do like the bit about this person, PLESF, for short. Good detail, again.
As he rushed into battle -- what battle?
I put my thoughts aside -- which thoughts?
and let hands collide. -- I'm assuming this is a fight, but I don't know with whom or for what purpose. I'm also not sure what this adds to the story line. Nothing seems to come of it.
30 days in the ditch passes quick for a tadpole,
I trade a jumpsuit for my name
with the cut of a wristband I'm free
to be a tadpole or frog,
I daydream of kissing a princess,
transforming into a man,
but lifes no fairy tale,
there are no princesses. -- I actually like the princess kissing the frog scenario. It works for me.
As I step into a forgotten sun
and hear the bustle of the city -- these two lines and the last line give great detail and provide great visualization of the scene for me.
I fondly reminisce
how I played in that ditch -- I don't know if the fault here is mine, but I'm wondering which ditch? I have it in my head that there is an actual ditch that the speaker used to play in and then there's the metaphor of the ditch to symbolize jail. Or is the ditch just the jail?
and light a stale cigarette.
Original
I stood there like a boy,
in reality I am,
standing at the edge of a murky ditch
debating whether to jump
I hesitantly sit
on a blood stained bench
I fondly reminisce
how I played in that ditch
shamelessly muddy,
my mother would scream how I make her worry
she'd say "son! The ditch is for dirt and ditch-diggers,"
I'd say "but mom there's tadpoles,"
No matter what she said
I wouldn't listen.
I played in that ditch all my life,
we'd move I'd find a new one
with little tadpoles that never grow.
I grew up into a tadpole
squirming in the ditch
with fellow tadpoles,
they'd say "wassup dog,
you bang?" I met a tadpole:
Panda Locs East Side Fresno
was his full name.
30 days in the ditch passes quick for a tadpole,
they tell me be a frog and ribbet,
eat a fly or something, anything,
but I'm a tadpole
I just wanna squiggle
in the ditch
with my fellow young tadpoles.
Ok, about the punctuation. It's a real issue -- go all in or all out. Personally, I'd go in because of aforementioned issues with narrative clarity, but it's your choice.
You have all the makings of a great story, you just need to tell it.
I feel like this edit is stronger than the original version and gives us a handle on how to interpret the poem. You're moving in the right direction.
Looking forward to what you'll do with the next edit.
All the best to you,
lizziep
Wipmp,
Thanks for the feedback again, im working on the punctuation, will post soon,
mike
(07-30-2016, 06:45 PM)lizziep Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2016, 11:54 AM)Weeded Wrote: [ -> ]Edit 1
I stood there like a boy,
in reality I am
standing at the edge of a murky ditch
debating whether to jump -- I do feel like the interpretation of this is impacted by the punctuation, or lack thereof. It's not clear what "reality" is referring to. It could read "I stood there like a boy. In reality I am standing at the edge of a murky ditch..." or it could read "I stood there like a boy (in reality I am), standing at the edge of a murky ditch..." Also, you have a stood/standing problem, and you need to clarify if this is happening in the past or the present. I suspect it's a bit of both, but right now it's just confusing.
I hesitantly sit -- here you have an inconsistency with the final stanza where the speaker says they are stepping out into the sun (being released, I presume). But, here the speaker is being booked. But, they're both stated in the present tense.
on a blood stained bench
my own blood dressing me -- I feel like you're alluding to previous events that led to the booking of the speaker. Is this accurate? If so, maybe a line or two explaining how the speaker ended up in this predicament. If you don't want to go there, then this reference should be dropped.
next to a killer, a thief
in pre-book one
impatiently waiting to go up -- here I'm wondering where "up" is. Going before the judge, I'm assuming? I'm having to assume a lot, and I presume that much of it is incorrect.
I fondly reminisce -- I think you need to place the speaker in time and space here. Sitting in a cell? Is this a continuation of place from the last stanza? If feels disconnected, but it's actually a crucial part of the story.
how I played in that ditch
shamelessly muddy,
my mother would scream how I make her worry
she'd say "son! The ditch is for dirt and ditch-diggers,"
I'd say "but mom there's tadpoles,"
No matter what she said
I wouldn't listen. -- I think that the ditch could work well as a metaphor for the dirtiness of life. The mother's admonitions and the speaker's strong nature make for a compelling backstory. I want this to be an actual ditch with actual dirt so that there's some kind of physical reality to use as a launching pad for the ditch metaphor.
I grew up into a tadpole that night, -- you haven't previously talked about this night, that I'm aware of, so it doesn't work to refer back to it. You need to place this within the context of the broader narrative (which you need to tell instead of alluding). I would also think about "became one of the tadpoles" instead of "grew up into one." It's throwing me off because tadpoles are babies.
reborn in a new kind of ditch
when they told me to strip
lift my nutsack, now cough,
when they gave me a jumpsuit
double XL for a large,
when I carried my life in a knapsack
up an elevator with no buttons, -- These last 8 lines provide great detail. This is more of the detail that you need, placing the speaker and giving the reader a narrative to connect to.
when I stood outside the glass wall penetrated
by looking eyes of childish freedom. -- the phrasing of these last two lines is very awkward. Especially in the context of a poem about prison, penetrated makes me think of sex, and I'm not sure that's what you're going for. Who is looking? I think that the freedom/prison juxtaposition could yield good things.
They'd say "wassup dog, -- specify who "they" is. I'm assuming it's other tadpoles?
you bang?" I met a tadpole:
Panda Locs East Side Fresno
was his full name.
I wondered what kind of man -- later you say that the speaker is not a man but still a tadpole, but here you're referring to this character as both a man and a tadpole. I'd clear up this discrepancy.
chose such a name,
what kind of name he would've chosen
had he not been a tadpole. -- I do like the bit about this person, PLESF, for short. Good detail, again.
As he rushed into battle -- what battle?
I put my thoughts aside -- which thoughts?
and let hands collide. -- I'm assuming this is a fight, but I don't know with whom or for what purpose. I'm also not sure what this adds to the story line. Nothing seems to come of it.
30 days in the ditch passes quick for a tadpole,
I trade a jumpsuit for my name
with the cut of a wristband I'm free
to be a tadpole or frog,
I daydream of kissing a princess,
transforming into a man,
but lifes no fairy tale,
there are no princesses. -- I actually like the princess kissing the frog scenario. It works for me.
As I step into a forgotten sun
and hear the bustle of the city -- these two lines and the last line give great detail and provide great visualization of the scene for me.
I fondly reminisce
how I played in that ditch -- I don't know if the fault here is mine, but I'm wondering which ditch? I have it in my head that there is an actual ditch that the speaker used to play in and then there's the metaphor of the ditch to symbolize jail. Or is the ditch just the jail?
and light a stale cigarette.
Original
I stood there like a boy,
in reality I am,
standing at the edge of a murky ditch
debating whether to jump
I hesitantly sit
on a blood stained bench
I fondly reminisce
how I played in that ditch
shamelessly muddy,
my mother would scream how I make her worry
she'd say "son! The ditch is for dirt and ditch-diggers,"
I'd say "but mom there's tadpoles,"
No matter what she said
I wouldn't listen.
I played in that ditch all my life,
we'd move I'd find a new one
with little tadpoles that never grow.
I grew up into a tadpole
squirming in the ditch
with fellow tadpoles,
they'd say "wassup dog,
you bang?" I met a tadpole:
Panda Locs East Side Fresno
was his full name.
30 days in the ditch passes quick for a tadpole,
they tell me be a frog and ribbet,
eat a fly or something, anything,
but I'm a tadpole
I just wanna squiggle
in the ditch
with my fellow young tadpoles.
Ok, about the punctuation. It's a real issue -- go all in or all out. Personally, I'd go in because of aforementioned issues with narrative clarity, but it's your choice.
You have all the makings of a great story, you just need to tell it.
I feel like this edit is stronger than the original version and gives us a handle on how to interpret the poem. You're moving in the right direction.
Looking forward to what you'll do with the next edit.
All the best to you,
lizziep
Hey there lizzie,
I made a lengthy reply to this the other day but lost it all
But thanks so much for critique, I'm working off your every suggestion as theyre all great!
I agree with you on the tense issue, my initial approach was the cause for the confusion I think, I've stepped back and reworked it so the order of events is a bit more sensible,
and there is a bit of a vernacular issue, im working on that as well.
And as far as the 'penetrating' bit, I threw that in there kind of wondering if it would throw the reader in that awkward "is this intended to be sexual" frame of mind. It's certainly relevant, still not sure if I plan to keep it though.
As for the rest youre absolutely right, im almost done with the rewrite thanks to you, I appreciate the time you took with this one!
mike
(08-02-2016, 06:23 AM)Weeded Wrote: [ -> ]Hey there lizzie,
I made a lengthy reply to this the other day but lost it all
But thanks so much for critique, I'm working off your every suggestion as theyre all great!
I agree with you on the tense issue, my initial approach was the cause for the confusion I think, I've stepped back and reworked it so the order of events is a bit more sensible,
and there is a bit of a vernacular issue, im working on that as well.
And as far as the 'penetrating' bit, I threw that in there kind of wondering if it would throw the reader in that awkward "is this intended to be sexual" frame of mind. It's certainly relevant, still not sure if I plan to keep it though.
As for the rest youre absolutely right, im almost done with the rewrite thanks to you, I appreciate the time you took with this one!
mike
Yay, I'm glad it was helpful! Yes, I'll be looking forward to the re-write.
Funny, you're the second person to say that they replied to something of mine and then lost it. Hmmm. If I were not such a technophobe, I would venture an explanation.