Poetry Forum

2nd Edit

Re-cursed


Five deer walk, branch-limbed, bark-haired,
Through a dull but brightening morning
And pine forest, sprites of which they are,
On mossy grass, suspiciously bright green,
As if an artist had applied its color
Straight from the tube.
Each follows each, loosely single-file,
Always downslope.

The ancients had it wrong:
See, these are sobered Fauns,
But with the fore-parts of shy animals,
As we are Minotaurs
Cursed with the heads of men.


1st Edit




Five deer walk, branch-limbed, bark-haired,
Through a dull but brightening morning,
And pine forest, sprites of which they are,
On mossy grass, suspiciously bright green,
As if an artist had applied its color,
Straight from the tube.
Each follows each, loosely, single-file,
Always downslope.

The ancients had it wrong:
See, these are sobered Fauns,
But with the fore-parts of shy animals,
As we are Minotaurs
Cursed with the heads of men.


Original version;

Recursed


Deer walk, branch-limbed, bark-haired,
(Antlerless for now)
Through a dim but brightening morning,
(And a forest, life of which they are)
On mossy grass, suspiciously bright green,
As if the artist had applied its color
Straight from the tube;
Each follows each, loosely single-file,
Always downslope.

The ancients had it wrong:
See, these are fauns, indeed,
But with the fore-parts of shy animals,
As we are minotaurs
Cursed with the heads of men.

---

 
(Written at my sister's hilly, wooded home, looking out the window.)

[Now with edits posted in the original post]

Recursed

01     Deer walk, branch-limbed, bark-haired,
02     (Antlerless for now)
03     Through a dim but brightening morning,
04     (And a forest, life of which they are)
05     On mossy grass, suspiciously bright green,
06     As if the artist had applied its color
07     Straight from the tube;
08     Each follows each, loosely single-file,
09     Always downslope.
10    
11     The ancients had it wrong:
12     See, these are fauns, indeed,
13     But with the fore-parts of shy animals,
14     As we are minotaurs
15     Cursed with the heads of men.

I like this poem, especially its atmosphere: the tactile feel of the forest.

Title: Maybe "Re-cursed" ?

1 "Deer walk" is aesthetically pleasing, but a bit confusing.
"The deer walk" would probably be better.

2 Not sure about "antlerless".
How about "without antlers for now" or just eliminate this line?

3 Don't like "dim", it has too many negative connotations .
"At first light", or something similar, would be better.
"." after "morning".

4 Needs rephrasing, a different way of saying how connected they are,
how much a part of the forest they are.

6 That "the" should be an "an".  Needs a comma after "color"

7 Needs a ".", not a ";" after "tube".  

8 "," after loosely

12-13 While I love this "return to form", fauns were as horny as goats and
not exactly deer-in-the-woods -- what personality would a half-deer, half-goat have?
Would their babies be called "fawn-fauns" ?

14-15 Ha, yes, DO love the "un-juxtaposition" of this creature.
And the idea that even Minotaurs would feel cursed if they
had man-heads. Puts us pretty low. Nice irony.

I'd like to note that, given the content of this poem, I think capitalizing the first letter of
every line is aesthetically pleasing and entirely appropriate.

But, if you're going to use capitals and punctuation, then "Minotaur" and "Faun"
are usually capitalized as well.

And, being a code-writer, I can't help but think of recursion, recursive functions, the
depth of gods and humans, and bacteria, and atoms, and a universe or two.

Re-cursed


Five deer walk, branch-limbed, bark-haired,
Through a dull but brightening morning,
And pine forest, sprites of which they are,
On mossy grass, suspiciously bright green,
As if an artist had applied its color,
Straight from the tube.
Each follows each, loosely, single-file,
Always downslope.

The ancients had it wrong:
See, these are sobered Fauns,
But with the fore-parts of shy animals,
As we are Minotaurs
Cursed with the heads of men.

---

Thank you very much for the fine critique.  I'm feeling my way with free verse, sometimes subjecting it to too much formalism (line-start capitalization), sometimes too little (punctuation, where enjambment isn't carrying the whole load).  The above reflects your recommendations, with a little fresh inspiration where suggested.  (And no longer fourteen lines - escape from the sonnet!   )

I'm wondering if a comma is needed after Minotaurs, as after color?  I think of both as continued on the next line, but then there should be no line break.   Curse you, forced choices of free verse!

And you're right, of course, about capitalizing names of semi-divine creatures collectively:  I wouldn't dare fail to capitalize Fates or Furies!

Glad you liked it.  It's a better poem now, though it departs slightly from my stream of consciousness watching those deer through the window.  A lesson there.  (Also, to make one last punctuation check before posting - like checking the brake lights before taking the car out for inspection.)

(11-08-2015, 08:49 AM)rayheinrich Wrote: [ -> ]Recursed

01     Deer walk, branch-limbed, bark-haired,
02     (Antlerless for now)
03     Through a dim but brightening morning,
04     (And a forest, life of which they are)
05     On mossy grass, suspiciously bright green,
06     As if the artist had applied its color
07     Straight from the tube;
08     Each follows each, loosely single-file,
09     Always downslope.
10    
11     The ancients had it wrong:
12     See, these are fauns, indeed,
13     But with the fore-parts of shy animals,
14     As we are minotaurs
15     Cursed with the heads of men.

I like this poem, especially its atmosphere: the tactile feel of the forest.

Title: Maybe "Re-cursed" ?

1 "Deer walk" is aesthetically pleasing, but a bit confusing.
"The deer walk" would probably be better.

2 Not sure about "antlerless".
How about "without antlers for now" or just eliminate this line?

3 Don't like "dim", it has too many negative connotations .
"At first light", or something similar, would be better.
"." after "morning".

4 Needs rephrasing, a different way of saying how connected they are,
how much a part of the forest they are.

6 That "the" should be an "an".  Needs a comma after "color"

7 Needs a ".", not a ";" after "tube".  

8 "," after loosely

12-13 While I love this "return to form", fauns were as horny as goats and
not exactly deer-in-the-woods -- what personality would a half-deer, half-goat have?
Would their babies be called "fawn-fauns" ?

14-15 Ha, yes, DO love the "un-juxtaposition" of this creature.
And the idea that even Minotaurs would feel cursed if they
had man-heads. Puts us pretty low. Nice irony.

I'd like to note that, given the content of this poem, I think capitalizing the first letter of
every line is aesthetically pleasing and entirely appropriate.

But, if you're going to use capitals and punctuation, then "Minotaur" and "Faun"
are usually capitalized as well.

And, being a code-writer, I can't help but think of recursion, recursive functions, the
depth of gods and humans, and bacteria, and atoms, and a universe or two.

(11-08-2015, 11:23 PM)dukealien Wrote: [ -> ]Re-cursed


Five deer walk, branch-limbed, bark-haired,
Through a dull but brightening morning,
And pine forest, sprites of which they are,
On mossy grass, suspiciously bright green,
As if an artist had applied its color,
Straight from the tube.
Each follows each, loosely, single-file,
Always downslope.

The ancients had it wrong:
See, these are sobered Fauns,
But with the fore-parts of shy animals,
As we are Minotaurs
Cursed with the heads of men.

Hi, Duke, welcome to the site. Here's the link for the suggested way to post an edit, it avoids the confusion when someone new comes to the thread and crits the original instead of the edit.
http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/announcement-25.html

For me I think you can cut some commas: at the end of L1, L2, L4, L5, L10, maybe after loosely. The breaks create a short pause on their own and amplifying that makes the read choppier than it needs to be for me.

Just something for you to consider, I hope you enjoy the site.

2nd Edit

Re-cursed


Five deer walk, branch-limbed, bark-haired,
Through a dull but brightening morning
And pine forest, sprites of which they are,
On mossy grass, suspiciously bright green,
As if an artist had applied its color
Straight from the tube.
Each follows each, loosely single-file,
Always downslope.

The ancients had it wrong:
See, these are sobered Fauns,
But with the fore-parts of shy animals,
As we are Minotaurs
Cursed with the heads of men.


1st Edit




Five deer walk, branch-limbed, bark-haired,
Through a dull but brightening morning,
And pine forest, sprites of which they are,
On mossy grass, suspiciously bright green,
As if an artist had applied its color,
Straight from the tube.
Each follows each, loosely, single-file,
Always downslope.

The ancients had it wrong:
See, these are sobered Fauns,
But with the fore-parts of shy animals,
As we are Minotaurs
Cursed with the heads of men.


Original version;

Recursed


Deer walk, branch-limbed, bark-haired,
(Antlerless for now)
Through a dim but brightening morning,
(And a forest, life of which they are)
On mossy grass, suspiciously bright green,
As if the artist had applied its color
Straight from the tube;
Each follows each, loosely single-file,
Always downslope.

The ancients had it wrong:
See, these are fauns, indeed,
But with the fore-parts of shy animals,
As we are minotaurs
Cursed with the heads of men.

---

Thanks for the reference on how to post revisions, and your welcome critique on punctuation (which undoes, or seems to conflict with, rayheinrich's on that subject).  I've partially reverted them while retaining the other improvements.  Free verse:  so many added opportunities to foul up improve compared to forms!

Quote:Hi, Duke, welcome to the site. Here's the link for the suggested way to post an edit, it avoids the confusion when someone new comes to the thread and crits the original instead of the edit.
http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/announcement-25.html

For me I think you can cut some commas: at the end of L1, L2, L4, L5, L10, maybe after loosely. The breaks create a short pause on their own and amplifying that makes the read choppier than it needs to be for me.

Just something for you to consider, I hope you enjoy the site.

Quote:Dukealien wrote:
(which undoes, or seems to conflict with, rayheinrich's on that subject)

Welcome to the world of critique.
Each reader comes with their own read, it's up to the poet to figure out if any changes that would aid an individual reader actually benefit his poem and if so, how to work that in and maintain his own vision for the piece. That's the fun of it.

Five deer walk -- Excellent solution.
Antlerless  has disappeared
dim changed to dull -- Cool!
sprites -- what a great idea!

"sobered Fauns" -- You sly devil you, that fixed the faun problem and
added an interesting level of complexity that compliments the poem's intent.

I didn't think I called for that many commas, well, whatever,
I pretty much agree with ellajam at the moment.

My problem with advising anyone about the use of punctuation marks,
is that I rarely (as in never) use them in my poems. I vary the line lengths
so the end-pause does most of the punctuation. I do the rest by inserting
blank lines and varying syllable lengths and metric feet.

I also don't capitalize anything.

So you can see why I might be a bit creaky when it comes to those various
types of machination.

A good poem to start with, an excellent one now.

ray

Thanks again for the great critique, and (now) the good words.

Just now thought of changing "sobered" to "chastened," satyrs in their cups having been the first image that popped into mind rather than in their other ... pursuits.  But stet.

Think I'm going to like this forum.  Was half a coder myself ("programmer-analyst," i.e. Talks To Animals as seen from both sides) for a while, and one of the pleasures was being able to go to my boss's office, show work, and say, "Need another set of eyes on this."  He was a programmer, too, and in the same languages.

(11-09-2015, 01:00 PM)rayheinrich Wrote: [ -> ]Five deer walk -- Excellent solution.
Antlerless  has disappeared
dim changed to dull -- Cool!
sprites -- what a great idea!

"sobered Fauns" -- You sly devil you, that fixed the faun problem and
added an interesting level of complexity that compliments the poem's intent.

I didn't think I called for that many commas, well, whatever,
I pretty much agree with ellajam at the moment.

My problem with advising anyone about the use of punctuation marks,
is that I rarely (as in never) use them in my poems. I vary the line lengths
so the end-pause does most of the punctuation. I do the rest by inserting
blank lines and varying syllable lengths and metric feet.

I also don't capitalize anything.

So you can see why I might be a bit creaky when it comes to those various
types of machination.

A good poem to start with, an excellent one now.

ray

(11-10-2015, 07:36 AM)dukealien Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks again for the great critique, and (now) the good words.

Just now thought of changing "sobered" to "chastened," satyrs in their cups having been the first image that popped into mind rather than in their other ... pursuits.  But stet.

Think I'm going to like this forum.  Was half a coder myself ("programmer-analyst," i.e. Talks To Animals as seen from both sides) for a while, and one of the pleasures was being able to go to my boss's office, show work, and say, "Need another set of eyes on this."  He was a programmer, too, and in the same languages.

"Chastened" implies external action, "sobered" an internal process be it willful or the product of time.
When I look at those faundeer in context, "sobered" seems to fit better.

You're bound to like parts of the forum; but don't get too excited, it's kinda uneven at times.
ray

Five deer walk, branch-limbed, bark-haired,
[Branch-limbed, bark-haired has great internal rhythm, nicely predicated by 'five deer walk.' - just sounds nice!]
Through a dull but brightening morning
[Again you have a strong sense of internal rhythm, the 'ing' of brightening and the 'ing' of morning go well together. To increase this perhaps you could remove the 'a' altogether.]
And pine forest, sprites of which they are,
On mossy grass, suspiciously bright green,
As if an artist had applied its color
Straight from the tube.
[This is great, although denoting it as 'suspicious' and then instantly offering an hypothesis addled my mind a little.]
Each follows each, loosely single-file,
Always downslope.

The ancients had it wrong:
See, these are sobered Fauns,
But with the fore-parts of shy animals,
As we are Minotaurs
Cursed with the heads of men.

[I can't fault this last section: I think the changes you have already made are excellent. Really love the last two lines.]

@rayheinrich - Yes, thanks, "chastened" was only a passing thought.  Is it etiquette in this forum to wait until critiques stop coming in, to post another poem?

@AlstonTowers - Thank you for the read, comments, and suggestion.  I'll think about removing "a" in l.2 - it is smoother, but I like an accented first syllable on that line.  Small changes, most ambivalent; a big change is more obviously right or wrong.

@Joatmon - Thank you, it is a lot of advice for a small poem, but I did mark myself as relatively new to free verse, and the advice has been very good.  Need to get into the rhythm of the site, learn how long to wait before posting an edit.

(11-11-2015, 10:06 AM)dukealien Wrote: [ -> ]@rayheinrich - Yes, thanks, "chastened" was only a passing thought.  Is it etiquette in this forum to wait until critiques stop coming in, to post another poem?

@AlstonTowers - Thank you for the read, comments, and suggestion.  I'll think about removing "a" in l.2 - it is smoother, but I like an accented first syllable on that line.  Small changes, most ambivalent; a big change is more obviously right or wrong.

@Joatmon - Thank you, it is a lot of advice for a small poem, but I did mark myself as relatively new to free verse, and the advice has been very good.  Need to get into the rhythm of the site, learn how long to wait before posting an edit.

You can post one poem per day in one of the three workshops as long as you have provided at least one new critique in a workshop for someone else.

That was the easy question, when to edit is very subjective, differing from poet to poet and poem to poem.

(11-11-2015, 07:40 PM)ellajam Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-11-2015, 10:06 AM)dukealien Wrote: [ -> ]@rayheinrich - Yes, thanks, "chastened" was only a passing thought.  Is it etiquette in this forum to wait until critiques stop coming in, to post another poem?

@AlstonTowers - Thank you for the read, comments, and suggestion.  I'll think about removing "a" in l.2 - it is smoother, but I like an accented first syllable on that line.  Small changes, most ambivalent; a big change is more obviously right or wrong.

@Joatmon - Thank you, it is a lot of advice for a small poem, but I did mark myself as relatively new to free verse, and the advice has been very good.  Need to get into the rhythm of the site, learn how long to wait before posting an edit.

You can post one poem per day in one of the three workshops as long as you have provided at least one new critique in a workshop for someone else.

That was the easy question, when to edit is very subjective, differing from poet to poet and poem to poem.

Ditto what ellajam said.

Editing gets kinda weird as what's good one day is bad the next is actually better than the good of
two days ago and on the fourth day you are convinced it's bad and you're worse.

I try to ignore the mood swings and use a more objective standard as to when a poem's finished:
It's ready when you can't stand to look at it one more time (for me, a poem is never really finished).

Another thing I do is keep every version from the very first. And save them in small editing increments
rather than large ones. This can mean, for me, that one of my poem documents has 5 to 10 (even 20
every once in a while) versions one below the other. What I've found, since I'm someone who tends to
over-edit, is that my best poem usually comes 2 or 3 versions before the last version. I also find that
it's helpful, once you have what you think is the "final", to look back to the original to see if there's some
fresh detail in the original that got accidentally dropped along the way.

And then, most important of all, wait a few weeks, come back, and see if you were crazy or not.

Ray