it seems we all know each other pretty well as far as a poetry site goes. are we at that point where we inhibit newbs from posting.
are we yet a clique and if so how do we devolve back to a non clique clique?

personally i can't see us as a clique yet but i think it will be inevitable given more members. that being the case, how is it best dealt with (new members; this is the time to whet your beaks Wink )
reflecting a bit on when I first came here...

I didn't find the site too cliquey when I arrived. I think you have to understand that the community you are entering already exists to a degree, firstly, and also keep in mind what your goal is. If it is to improve and find honest critique, then I think your goals will take you past whatever relationships may already exist on the site. Perhaps it also takes a step of courage to release your work, but I don't know what other things the site could do to be more accommodating; I've seen others that seem far less so (granted, there are other sites just as friendly as well)

in other words, nothing useful to add. but i'm not seeing anything broken
Written only for you to consider.
thanks for the input, i do think we (the regulars) have to keep vigilant and try and bring any newbs into the fold.
most have come from a poetry site or been in some other foum so they usually know how ball rolls.
i do realise a site like this can be a bit daunting if all you've seen on your work is "well done, you're a god" "D
I dunno... I think we are pretty welcoming of newbs. They usually get lots of comments and encouragement. Granted some critiques may not be for the faint of heart (maybe that's why Big Grin), but from my perspective I don't think we do anything to "exclude" newbies as such.
PS. If you can, try your hand at giving some of the others a bit of feedback. If you already have, thanks, can you do some more?
Leanne advised me when I first joined to participate in the non-poetry forums so that people would get to know me (and that even though I was an asshole, I wasn't really the bad sort of asshole...well at least not usually), but as Geoff says it is a given that the people who have been here will know each other better than someone who has just arrived. It is also a given that people will align with those of like mind to some degree (however the way the site is designed, it does not really promote exclusiveness, as all areas are open to all members). Plus there is always the perception at first that the "newby" is on the "outside", and the rest are on the "inside".

I don't think it is necessary, but if you want to do something, you can assign a specific mentor that the person can chat with about anything they don't understand, that way they feel attached to the group through that person, plus it gives them someone who can act as a confidant when they come up against rules, or people, or whatever they think are goofy, it gives them someone to blow off about it with. Generally however, if a person doesn't have the necessary ego strength to stick around without help is that really someone you want on the site, as it generally ends up being someone you have to tip toe around. So I am not sure that just increasing numbers, without regard to quality, is really a valid goal. I think if the site has integrity it will attract people who will both benefit from the site and be a benefit to the site (although that kind of growth, though more sound, is also much slower. Deep roots take time!).
Of course if the goal is simply numbers, then an attitude of accommodating, or catering to the lowest common element of tolerance would need to be followed in order to keep any members one attracted. One such measure I have seen on other sites is to allow the primary poster to delete any comments or critiques they find not to their liking. Another approach is to implement an achievement system unattached to real quality, and one that simply rewards participation. This way anyone can have a sense of achievement within the community, and a new comer has a clear way lined out to become one of the group. Such an approach also keeps members because the individual does not want to quit, and thus leave behind the tangible sign of their status. A final approach is to allow people to have an individualized home page, and to individualize their post through visual adornment by such as background color, styles and images, and animation, access to a multiplicity of font types, styles, colors and so fourth, and implementation of A/V elements within the page.

One thing you might consider is that which generally generates rapid numbers also increases the trend towards sub-groups as most people cannot feel apart of a group once it passes a certain number of people, thus necessitating the need for the formation of cliques. Smile

How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?

The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
As far as sites go, this is one of the friendlier sites I've been a part of. Knowing someone here hasn't made a difference. IMO you guys make new members feel welcome. Naturally cliques are going to form, but I wouldn't say you're a clique to the exclusion of all others, and pretty much anyone that takes part is welcome.
"Poets are shameless with their experiences: they exploit them." - Friedrich Nietzsche
I have never felt left out here- even when I first joined. You guys are always welcoming and make the n00b feel good about posting.

Like Geoff said, nothing seems broken Smile
I've never heard a complaint about cliques (ahem! and I have referred more people than anybody else), just complaints about the difficulty in learning the different interface. On that I agree, as this is not the most intuitive or obvious interface, although I don't think the learning curve is prohibitive. I'm just glad someone told how to make everything blue, instead of that ugly red that was the default!

How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?

The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
i love that red you bad person Angry

we seem to be getting more newbs and i thought we could bring the matter up again (it has been hashed over once before) and in some way let them understand the place a bit better. (and us of course) i think what we need to do in order to keep it as clique free, or should i say as friendly as possible is to jump on newbs as soon as they get in and leave them feedback relevant to where they post. i'm not saying pander to their every need Big Grin just show some enthusiasm. try and bring them unto the fold. of course if they don't leave feedback we can toss them aside like the rag dolls they would be Smile what i do notice is the fact that newbs never post in these kind of threads, (i suppose they could prove me wrong).

if they don't post feedback it does set up a kind of them and us feel, people think...screw that i'm wasting time.
I have been in poetry forums where there are cliques, it was obvious and hard on newbies. Before I even joined this forum I read the comments and the poems and honestly, if I thought there were cliques to where the "regulars" are just posting on other "regulars" work I probably wouldn't have joined. I'm a "fresh newbie", it's only I think my second day on this forum and have felt welcomed. You don't sugar-coat anything and it seems to me you dont feel superior to newbies just because you have more experience and time on this forum. You actually take the time to thoroughly read and encourage everyone and anyone, which is what forums are all about. There isn't anything I think you should do differently or better for newbies, just keep doing what you're doing.

On another note, it's not exactly your responsibility to reach out and go out of your way to cater. In my opinion it is also up to the newbies to reach out to the regulars because how else is anyone going to get to know each other without effort from both regulars AND newbies.
Thank you! This site works best when everyone just gets involved -- because we're only fairly small, hopefully nobody feels left out. I confess I feel more kindly towards folk like yourself who jump in first with comments and maybe one poem rather than posting a load of poems and not interacting in any other way, but at the end of the day we're all about improving poetry so however it happens, it's all good.
It could be worse
I agree, involvement is essential in forums. All members are given an equal chance to participate, whether they fully participate or not is up to that member. I don't feel that anyone should feel left out, if they do then that person should jump in. No one is stripping them of that right on here.

I like to interact with other members here first and their work because to me it's easier to add my own writing. For some reason it gives me more courage and I'm not here to just get feedback, I like the community feeling because we are all here for the same purpose.
it's better to have one clique that includes everyone i think. Big Grin

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