Full Rewrites
#1
Does it help the person your critiqueing
to rewrite their poem completely?
Would it show what they could be doing,
or is that unhelpful?

What I'm saying is 
is it better to just give em' a little love tap
rather than go rough on them?
It's their decision if they want the crit or not
and I'm not necessarily a teacher,
I just give my honest opinion.

On one hand, whether it's bad or good 
is for the creator to decide between
but on the other, I want to be able
to not poison the people I crit
with my stupidity,
especially beginners.

What is your process, you,
the viewer of this post??????


What do you think????
"Whenever is a really long never"
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#2
I took a poem in here that had a ton of negative responses to it. I tried to overcompensate and critique in such a way that seemed like I loved the poem. Was I lying? Yes, did they read it? I doubt it, does it matter? I enjoyed myself
Peanut butter honey banana sandwiches
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#3
(03-28-2022, 09:24 AM)Semicircle Wrote:  Does it help the person your critiqueing
to rewrite their poem completely?
Would it show what they could be doing,
or is that unhelpful?

What I'm saying is 
is it better to just give em' a little love tap
rather than go rough on them?
It's their decision if they want the crit or not
and I'm not necessarily a teacher,
I just give my honest opinion.

On one hand, whether it's bad or good 
is for the creator to decide between
but on the other, I want to be able
to not poison the people I crit
with my stupidity,
especially beginners.

What is your process, you,
the viewer of this post??????


What do you think????

From what I can tell from reading some poems and critiques on here and thinking about them, the best thing to do is point out errors that are apparently unintentional. Spelling mistakes, grammar errors, etc. Usually a concept or idea is intentional and therefore I don't think it is worth mentioning. Most people (most) want constructive feedback, and constructive feedback is usually about a mistake someone has made and missed in the edit. Sometimes it's not so easy to work out what was meant and what not. But, I suppose that is part of the skill of giving constructive criticism. I remember reading your poem called Afterlife, and I was confused by the tenses... however, I did also appreciate writing a poem about being dead would raise tense issues and wondered if it were done on purpose. Was it a stroke of genius to mess around with the tenses? By the end I was sure it was unintentional (I could, still, be wrong). Basically, I think feedback (giving it) should be mindful of what the poet intended first and foremost and then figuring out if there is anything you can add to better realizing that intention.

Also, I am not sure entirely re-writing a poem is in the recipient's best interest. They want to find their own voice, not yours.
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#4
(03-28-2022, 09:24 AM)Semicircle Wrote:  Does it help the person your critiqueing
to rewrite their poem completely?
Would it show what they could be doing,
or is that unhelpful?

What I'm saying is 
is it better to just give em' a little love tap
rather than go rough on them?
It's their decision if they want the crit or not
and I'm not necessarily a teacher,
I just give my honest opinion.

On one hand, whether it's bad or good 
is for the creator to decide between
but on the other, I want to be able
to not poison the people I crit
with my stupidity,
especially beginners.

What is your process, you,
the viewer of this post??????


What do you think????

Rewriting the pome doesn’t help in the slightest 
For one, there is no guarantee in most cases  that the rewrite will be significantly better
Secondly, in those cases where the OP is an absolute beginner and any rewrite will be an improvement, there is no self-learning that comes about as a result of the crit.
It’s like learning to drive - you don’t help by taking the wheel and showing how it’s done.
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#5
I try to do a critique as helpful as possible and try to not rewrite as much as i can. I don't mind people offering alternative words for my poem as i'll always feel as though it's my poem. Advice on things like line breaks and enjambment is invaluable for me and i take it all on board. I suppose essentially if the poet can still consider it their poem after a critique then certain suggestions are fine. 

I don't really recall seeing any 'full' rewrites on here
and i know i haven't done any myself 
but if anyone thinks that i've gone too far
then let me know, i'll take it on board.

mark
feedback award wae aye man ye radgie
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#6
Speaking only for myself, I find full rewrites (even of only a complete line or couplet) unhelpful when delivered to me even with the best intentions, and impolite when I provide them to others.  That's why I always apologize even when offering rewrite of only a complete phrase, not to mention a line.  I feel clues without set answers are best:  I'm better than you are, but you're better than I am, so show me how you can do better here in your own way.

To me, critique at its best improves not only the work under discussion but its author's skills in general.  In fact, it can improve *everyone's* skills, including readers of the crit and the critic's own ("you know, I do that, too" and "I should try that some time").  To mix a metaphor, a rewrite is "here's another way you could have caught this fish" while advice of a more general nature is "here's a trick that makes your lure more attractive to the fish."  The pinnacle could be, I don't know, "think of other ways patience and encouraging what you want to come to you might improve your success in life."
feedback award Non-practicing atheist
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#7
Hey Semi C-
Does it help the person your critiqueing to rewrite their poem completely?
No. I like what busker said in this regard: It’s like learning to drive - you don’t help by taking the wheel and showing how it’s done.

Would it show what they could be doing, or is that unhelpful?
I can only hope the poem shows me what it's doing, so a full re-write is not helpful.  That said, I have re-arranged poems here while trying to retain as much of the original wording as possible: ie I mostly subtract instead of add, hopefully showing which words/phrases had the most impact on me.
If I like an idea, and wanna do I re-write, I'll just steal the general idea and write my own poem. The quirky/realistic/pastoral nature of work by Tim (aka T.Base) has inspired me in that regard. 


What is your process, you, the viewer of this post??????
I generally react to the the way words hit my eyes and ears.
I pay attention to accuracy.  I always appreciate when someone points out inaccuracies in my poems.
I pay attention to details like line breaks and internal or end-rhyming. I appreciate when folks notice that I'm trying to be "too poetic".
I pay attention to meter/rhythm to hopefully point out areas where I'm tripped up.  I appreciate when people tell me where I fail in that regard.
I pay attention to words that steer a poem off course, and appreciate when critique highlights even a single word that I use that clouds clarity.


What do you think????
I think that the spirit of Billy and Leanne offer the best quidance on this very site: please see "How to use the Pen: Critique/Feedback: Giving and Getting It"
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#8
Thank you for the feedback.
I'll be more mindful of others vision
of their poems.

I suppose it's a general rule of thumb
not to screw with other people's creative process
because at a point it becomes yours; though,
it is fun to see your version of what was made up
as long as you keep it to yourself.
"Whenever is a really long never"
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