Winter Solstice
#1
The Longest Night

No warn of soul’s wrestle in the longest night
This unified celebration of the shortest day
In anticipation for ease and child’s play light
is to refuse the work
Like cold mother, her baby, in wail and need
is the denial of demons
Who take off their stiletto and unwind their hair
To show they are also fragile in this terror

Alone
Moon holds a gaze and gifts attentive suspire “My sweet friend, I know

“You can collapse in shatter and bone,
And give in

Surrender your cherish
And let hungry wolves feast on your most precious organs
Not because you have given up
But because they have chosen you

It’s oft that demons hail
And spew into the most important aspects of your life

Where they steep in your skin
Speak your tongue
Turn your eyes into glass
As you try to grasp someone you need
But leak your worms and rot
where they can no longer sympathise”

But this was the longest night

It’s okay to lose 
It’s okay to cripple
As it’s okay to accept the long aftermath

It’s okay to be deranged
And It’s okay to be disordered
When life has snapped in tangle and bite

It’s okay to take off your hat and clothes
And show rib and spine to the strong
And be your worms

For you have just wrestled the
incomprehensible
To soothe more formed and known

To know thyself and dance all corners of this Being
As you honour to be the whole of what God truly loves
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#2
There is very compelling imagery throughout this.  I'm stumbling through the grammar and I'm not sure if that's what I like about it.

(01-09-2022, 06:23 AM)tribaltea33 Wrote:  The Longest Night

(No warn) of (soul’s wrestle) in the longest night no warning?  Wrestle is just an odd noun, it's interesting though 
This unified celebration of the shortest day
In anticipation (for ease) and (child’s play light) of ease? Play-light? Very abstract
is to refuse the work
(Like cold mother), her baby, in wail and need
is the denial of demons
Who take off their stiletto and unwind their hair iim taking this as the stiletto line is the cold mother, which is like the baby, which is the denial of the demon which is the demon which is the mother...  So a little confusion in the phrasing
To show they are also fragile in this terror I like this line

Alone
Moon holds a gaze and gifts (attentive suspire) “My sweet friend, I know” 
I love the words, they're just odd, is suspire a noun or verb? Does suspire describe the gift, the moon, or both, it's compelling
“You can collapse (in shatter) and bone,
And give in 

Surrender your cherish cherished?
And let hungry wolves feast on your most precious organs
Not because you have given up
But because they have chosen you iinteresting

It’s oft that demons hail
And spew into the most important aspects of your life like cold mothers

Where they steep in your skin
Speak your tongue cool, like speak your language, or as a demon actually using your tongue
Turn your eyes into glass
As you try to grasp someone you need
But leak your worms and rot
where they can no longer sympathise”

But this was the longest night

It’s okay to lose 
It’s okay to cripple
As it’s okay to accept the long aftermath it's okay is kinda weak, I see a bunch more coming up

It’s okay to be deranged
And It’s okay to be disordered
When life has snapped in tangle and bite repetition is alright, it's okay must be an  important thought

It’s okay to take off your hat and clothes
And show (rib and spine) to the strong
And be your worms worms that leak out, be yourself

For you have just wrestled the
incomprehensible
To soothe more (formed and known) iim not sure, pretty abstract, maybe a little preachy

To know thyself and dance all corners of the soul
As you honour to be the whole of what God truly loves

Thanks for sharing!
Peanut butter honey banana sandwiches
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#3
"There is very compelling imagery throughout this.  I'm stumbling through the grammar and I'm not sure if that's what I like about it."

I want to second C. on his opening observation and address his last thought.  It is written in what almost seems like a different dialict of English and that awkardness is so consistent I hate to see it corrected because that is part of the power of this poem.
“All persons, living or dead, are entirely coincidental.”  Kurt Vonnegut
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#4
(01-09-2022, 02:05 PM)CRNDLSM Wrote:  There is very compelling imagery throughout this.  I'm stumbling through the grammar and I




Thanks for the feedback. The grammar is intentional. I agree about child's play light (it means daylight - everyone wants the ease of a long day because long nights are challenging). I will keep chewing through the editing and take your feedback into consideration. Can I ask what you mean by preachy? Thank you Smile

[quote="TranquillityBase" pid='257219' dateline='1641737063']
"There is very compelling imagery throughout this.  I'm stumbling through the grammar and I'm not sure if that's what I like about it."

I want to second C. on his opening observation and address his last thought.  It is written in what almost seems like a different dialict of English and that awkardness is so consistent I hate to see it corrected because that is part of the power of this poem.

The grammar is intentional. I'm British and it's kind of inspired by ye olde English. Thank you for the feedback Smile
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#5
I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the use of alternative grammar as a device. For me, it becomes an issue when that device takes priority over clarity. The grammar in question begins in L1 where the reader has yet to gain any momentum. (let them sink their teeth in a little first) The inconsistent use of Caps or no Caps at the start of each line also somewhat confuses the narrative. The content has the bones of a good poem but I think rethinking the delivery (even a little) would help it along.
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#6
(01-13-2022, 07:49 AM)Tiger the Lion Wrote:  I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the use of alternative grammar as a device. For me, it becomes an issue when that device takes priority over clarity. The grammar in question begins in L1 where the reader has yet to gain any momentum. (let them sink their teeth in a little first) The inconsistent use of Caps or no Caps at the start of each line also somewhat confuses the narrative. The content has the bones of a good poem but I think rethinking the delivery (even a little) would help it along.

I appreciate that. I’m guessing you’re not British though? As a British person would understand the first line without questioning the words warn or wrestle. Didn’t really think about that when writing it as maybe someone from the US wouldn’t question a way of speaking that’s understood to them, and it’s not something I’ll change as it’s deliberate and a part of how I write. I would say that a lot of the time people in the US can’t see past their own ways of doing things or their own culture to the point of rejecting something to suit themselves rather than walking in the shoes and enjoy accepting it in others, I don’t mean that as an offensive thing there’s the evidence. It’s on me for posting in an American forum though in all fairness. However, I’ll rethink the delivery overall. Totally agree about the capitals, that’s an error. Really appreciate the feedback, thank you.
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#7
.
Hi TribalT,
some interesting and engaging imagery, but I think it gets lost in the grammatical/linguistic thicket.


The Longest Night ....................... Not sure about the title, especially by the end.

No warn of soul’s wrestle in the longest night ............. I'm a Brit and I don't get this (it could be 'no warning of', or 'none warn that', or something else entirely) and like Tiger said, it's uninviting.
This unified celebration of the shortest day
In anticipation for ease and child’s play light ........... why this enjambment? Needlessly confusing.
is to refuse the work
Like cold mother, her baby, in wail and need
is the denial of demons ............................................ are you missing a comma after need? Can't follow this sentence.
Who take off their stiletto and unwind their hair ........ is the knife/shoe ambiguity deliberate?
To show they are also fragile in this terror .............. 'this terror'? The 'longest night'?

I don't think this verse is the best way to begin this piece, particularly as you immediately switch to

Alone
Moon holds a gaze and gifts attentive suspire “My sweet friend, I know”
The grammar and word choice combine to make each look forced. Even if you didn't want to go with the simpler 'sighs', you might consider

Alone
Moon draws breath, holds her gaze and gifts, "My sweet friend, I know

Also, why is there a speech mark after know? Isn't the next line a continuation of this?

You can collapse in shatter and bone,
And give in ........................................... (You can give in ?)

Surrender your cherish ...................... you've 'give in' then 'surrender' do you need both?
And let hungry wolves feast on your most precious organs
Not because you have given up ......... and now 'given up', the repetitions aren't working well.
But because they have chosen you

It’s oft that demons hail .................... this 'oft' doesn't fit will with the previous 6-8 lines. And, Brit or not, not understanding 'hail'
And spew into the most important aspects of your life ............ given what follows, do you need this line at all? (And what are they spewing anyway?)

Where they steep in your skin
Speak your tongue
Turn your eyes into glass
As you try to grasp someone you need
But leak your worms and rot
where they can no longer sympathise”

But this was the longest night .....................'But'? And shouldn't 'was' be 'is'?

It’s okay to lose ......................................... who's speaking here? The Moon, again? Mindful of your 'olde English' argument, what are you doing using a 19th century American term like 'okay'?
It’s okay to cripple
As it’s okay to accept the long aftermath

It’s okay to be deranged
And It’s okay to be disordered
When life has snapped in tangle and bite ........ possibly my favourite line.

It’s okay to take off your hat and clothes
And show rib and spine to the strong
And be your worms ........................................ what does this mean?

For you have just wrestled the
incomprehensible ........................................ I know the feeling Smile
To soothe more formed and known

To know thyself and dance all corners of this Being
As you honour to be the whole of what God truly loves .............I don't understand what this has to do with 'longest night' - is there a myth or piece of folklore you're referencing?


I'd suggest considering rearranging the last four or five verses,* as in


It’s okay to be deranged
And It’s okay to be disordered
When life has snapped in tangle and bite

It’s okay to take off your hat and clothes
And show rib and spine to the strong
And be your worms

It’s okay to lose
It’s okay to cripple
As it’s okay to accept the long aftermath .......... I'd be tempted to end with this line

To soothe more formed and known
For you have just wrestled
the incomprehensible ...................................... though this, as an end line, also works.


(*assuming you find an alternative to 'okay').


I'd suggest cutting the first and last verses, and having the whole thing as a single speech by Moon. Again, I agree with Tiger, there's the 'bones of a good poem' here, it just needs to be released.


A final, minor, gripe. You use 'and' a lot (and it becomes noticeable)



Best, Knot


.
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#8
(01-13-2022, 10:24 PM)Knot Wrote:  .
Hi TribalT,
some interesting and engaging imagery, but I think it gets lost in the grammatical/linguistic thicket.


The Longest Night ....................... Not sure about the title, especially by the end.

No warn of soul’s wrestle in the longest night ............. I'm a Brit and I don't get this (it could be 'no warning of', or 'none warn that', or something else entirely) and like Tiger said, it's uninviting.
This unified celebration of the shortest day
In anticipation for ease and child’s play light ........... why this enjambment? Needlessly confusing.
is to refuse the work
Like cold mother, her baby, in wail and need
is the denial of demons ............................................ are you missing a comma after need? Can't follow this sentence.
Who take off their stiletto and unwind their hair ........ is the knife/shoe ambiguity deliberate?
To show they are also fragile in this terror .............. 'this terror'? The 'longest night'?

I don't think this verse is the best way to begin this piece, particularly as you immediately switch to

Alone
Moon holds a gaze and gifts attentive suspire “My sweet friend, I know”
The grammar and word choice combine to make each look forced. Even if you didn't want to go with the simpler 'sighs', you might consider

Alone
Moon draws breath, holds her gaze and gifts, "My sweet friend, I know

Also, why is there a speech mark after know? Isn't the next line a continuation of this?

You can collapse in shatter and bone,
And give in ........................................... (You can give in ?)

Surrender your cherish ...................... you've 'give in' then 'surrender' do you need both?
And let hungry wolves feast on your most precious organs
Not because you have given up ......... and now 'given up', the repetitions aren't working well.
But because they have chosen you

It’s oft that demons hail .................... this 'oft' doesn't fit will with the previous 6-8 lines. And, Brit or not, not understanding 'hail'
And spew into the most important aspects of your life ............ given what follows, do you need this line at all? (And what are they spewing anyway?)

Where they steep in your skin
Speak your tongue
Turn your eyes into glass
As you try to grasp someone you need
But leak your worms and rot
where they can no longer sympathise”

But this was the longest night .....................'But'? And shouldn't 'was' be 'is'?

It’s okay to lose ......................................... who's speaking here? The Moon, again? Mindful of your 'olde English' argument, what are you doing using a 19th century American term like 'okay'?
It’s okay to cripple
As it’s okay to accept the long aftermath

It’s okay to be deranged
And It’s okay to be disordered
When life has snapped in tangle and bite ........ possibly my favourite line.

It’s okay to take off your hat and clothes
And show rib and spine to the strong
And be your worms ........................................ what does this mean?

For you have just wrestled the
incomprehensible ........................................ I know the feeling Smile
To soothe more formed and known

To know thyself and dance all corners of this Being
As you honour to be the whole of what God truly loves .............I don't understand what this has to do with 'longest night' - is there a myth or piece of folklore you're referencing?


I'd suggest considering rearranging the last four or five verses,* as in


It’s okay to be deranged
And It’s okay to be disordered
When life has snapped in tangle and bite

It’s okay to take off your hat and clothes
And show rib and spine to the strong
And be your worms

It’s okay to lose
It’s okay to cripple
As it’s okay to accept the long aftermath .......... I'd be tempted to end with this line

To soothe more formed and known
For you have just wrestled
the incomprehensible ...................................... though this, as an end line, also works.


(*assuming you find an alternative to 'okay').


I'd suggest cutting the first and last verses, and having the whole thing as a single speech by Moon. Again, I agree with Tiger, there's the 'bones of a good poem' here, it just needs to be released.


A final, minor, gripe. You use 'and' a lot (and it becomes noticeable)



Best, Knot


.

Feel like I hit a nerve with the Brit/US thing ha. “It’s okay” was something very personal said to me before that night so it means something to me but then I suppose that’s not what poetry is about. I sent it to some people who seemed to know what the first line meant but clearly not to all, so that’s important. Thanks for the “and” tip too. It’s the second poem I’ve written and first posted on here so I’m glad to get in depth feedback. Much appreciated.
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#9
.
Hi Tt.

Feel like I hit a nerve with the Brit/US thing ha
I wouldn't give it a second thought. (Tricky things, assumptions.)

It’s okay” was something very personal said to me before that night so it means something to me but then I suppose that’s not what poetry is about.
No, that may well be what poetry is about. But there's no way for a reader to know. If you disagree with a critique, either defend your corner, or just carry on regardless (either if fine, but one tends to be a bit more educational than the other.) I'd just point out that the word struck an off (linguistic) note, to me at least.
In terms of importance, what matters more to you, the 'okays' or the 'olde English style'?

I sent it to some people who seemed to know what it meant but clearly not to all.
Big word 'seemed' Smile (did they know about the context/event that occasioned the write?)

I’m glad to get in depth feedback. Much appreciated.
You're welcome. Looking forward to seeing how you choose to revise the piece, and what else you post.


Best, Knot


.
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#10
(01-14-2022, 01:07 AM)Knot Wrote:  .
Hi Tt.

Feel like I hit a nerve with the Brit/US thing ha
I wouldn't give it a second thought. (Tricky things, assumptions.)

It’s okay” was something very personal said to me before that night so it means something to me but then I suppose that’s not what poetry is about.
No, that may well be what poetry is about. But there's no way for a reader to know. If you disagree with a critique, either defend your corner, or just carry on regardless (either if fine, but one tends to be a bit more educational than the other.) I'd just point out that the word struck an off (linguistic) note, to me at least.
In terms of importance, what matters more to you, the 'okays' or the 'olde English style'?

I sent it to some people who seemed to know what it meant but clearly not to all.
Big word 'seemed' Smile (did they know about the context/event that occasioned the write?)

I’m glad to get in depth feedback. Much appreciated.
You're welcome. Looking forward to seeing how you choose to revise the piece, and what else you post.


Best, Knot


.

Thanks, Knot  Big Grin Nice feedback.  I’ll chew on it and post again.
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#11
(01-13-2022, 07:06 PM)tribaltea33 Wrote:  
(01-13-2022, 07:49 AM)Tiger the Lion Wrote:  I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the use of alternative grammar as a device. For me, it becomes an issue when that device takes priority over clarity. The grammar in question begins in L1 where the reader has yet to gain any momentum. (let them sink their teeth in a little first) The inconsistent use of Caps or no Caps at the start of each line also somewhat confuses the narrative. The content has the bones of a good poem but I think rethinking the delivery (even a little) would help it along.
I appreciate that. I’m guessing you’re not British though? As a British person would understand the first line without questioning the words warn or wrestle. Didn’t really think about that when writing it as maybe someone from the US wouldn’t question a way of speaking that’s understood to them, and it’s not something I’ll change as it’s deliberate and a part of how I write. I would say that a lot of the time people in the US can’t see past their own ways of doing things or their own culture to the point of rejecting something to suit themselves rather than walking in the shoes and enjoy accepting it in others, I don’t mean that as an offensive thing there’s the evidence. It’s on me for posting in an American forum though in all fairness. However, I’ll rethink the delivery overall. Totally agree about the capitals, that’s an error. Really appreciate the feedback, thank you.
You guessed wrong more than once. This was never a U.S. based site and I am a Canadian from Liverpool.
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#12
(01-15-2022, 06:17 AM)Tiger the Lion Wrote:  
(01-13-2022, 07:06 PM)tribaltea33 Wrote:  
(01-13-2022, 07:49 AM)Tiger the Lion Wrote:  I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the use of alternative grammar as a device. For me, it becomes an issue when that device takes priority over clarity. The grammar in question begins in L1 where the reader has yet to gain any momentum. (let them sink their teeth in a little first) The inconsistent use of Caps or no Caps at the start of each line also somewhat confuses the narrative. The content has the bones of a good poem but I think rethinking the delivery (even a little) would help it along.

I appreciate that. I’m guessing you’re not British though? As a British person would understand the first line without questioning the words warn or wrestle. Didn’t really think about that when writing it as maybe someone from the US wouldn’t question a way of speaking that’s understood to them, and it’s not something I’ll change as it’s deliberate and a part of how I write. I would say that a lot of the time people in the US can’t see past their own ways of doing things or their own culture to the point of rejecting something to suit themselves rather than walking in the shoes and enjoy accepting it in others, I don’t mean that as an offensive thing there’s the evidence. It’s on me for posting in an American forum though in all fairness. However, I’ll rethink the delivery overall. Totally agree about the capitals, that’s an error. Really appreciate the feedback, thank you.

You guessed wrong more than once. This was never a U.S. based site and I am a Canadian from Liverpool.

Do I get a prize for being wrong twice? Guess I just have to accept my poem is just naff then   Thumbsup If in doubt, blame the US
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#13
(01-15-2022, 08:34 AM)tribaltea33 Wrote:  
(01-15-2022, 06:17 AM)Tiger the Lion Wrote:  
(01-13-2022, 07:06 PM)tribaltea33 Wrote:  I appreciate that. I’m guessing you’re not British though? As a British person would understand the first line without questioning the words warn or wrestle. Didn’t really think about that when writing it as maybe someone from the US wouldn’t question a way of speaking that’s understood to them, and it’s not something I’ll change as it’s deliberate and a part of how I write. I would say that a lot of the time people in the US can’t see past their own ways of doing things or their own culture to the point of rejecting something to suit themselves rather than walking in the shoes and enjoy accepting it in others, I don’t mean that as an offensive thing there’s the evidence. It’s on me for posting in an American forum though in all fairness. However, I’ll rethink the delivery overall. Totally agree about the capitals, that’s an error. Really appreciate the feedback, thank you.
You guessed wrong more than once. This was never a U.S. based site and I am a Canadian from Liverpool.
Do I get a prize for being wrong twice? Guess I just have to accept my poem is just naff then   Thumbsup If in doubt, blame the US
I think "naff" would be a defeatist view of the poem considering the comments above. I'm reading a good mix of kudos and crit. The "intensive critique" is meant to inspire "workshopping." It's the nature of the forum. (see forum name)
And no one gets prizes for being wrong. I for one would require a storage unit to house them.
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#14
(01-15-2022, 09:24 AM)Tiger the Lion Wrote:  
(01-15-2022, 08:34 AM)tribaltea33 Wrote:  
(01-15-2022, 06:17 AM)Tiger the Lion Wrote:  You guessed wrong more than once. This was never a U.S. based site and I am a Canadian from Liverpool.

Do I get a prize for being wrong twice? Guess I just have to accept my poem is just naff then   Thumbsup If in doubt, blame the US

I think "naff" would be a defeatist view of the poem considering the comments above. I'm reading a good mix of kudos and crit. The "intensive critique" is meant to inspire "workshopping." It's the nature of the forum. (see forum name)
And no one gets prizes for being wrong. I for one would require a storage unit to house them.

I was making light of things rather than being serious, I’m still going to work on it. Thanks Smile
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