Into the depths
#1
Thanks The cranes reference doesn’t seem to be working
Also, the Dante allusion is overdone, making the narration unnatural. What’s the link anyway between the two?
Reworked.




Edit 2

Darling boy, whose lips are like summer
Sangiovese, the dawn light tangles
in your hair, like in a wood
intense, profound.

In dreams, I see a Maltese sun
light up the sea, on a boat some boys.
Red, malachite, and gold the day.
Their heads are haloed. Golden hay
their wind swept locks.

They leap into a tidy sea, 
and I sink deep into the depths.

Edit 1
Darling boy, whose lips are like summer
Sangiovese, the morning sun
falls on your hair, like on a field
of what’s flaxen in Tuscany
longed for in exile,
from the murk where where cranes are wailing,
wheeling in the frozen depths.

At night, I dream of a Maltese sun
light up the sea, on a boat some boys.
Red, malachite, and gold the day.
Their heads are haloed. Golden hay
their wind swept locks. Their limbs are lean,
the green ocean glints in their eyes.

They leap into a tidy sea, 
and I sink deep into the depths.

Original
Darling boy, whose lips are like summer
Sangiovese, the Tuscan noon
in your wind swept hair, 
go trippingly. Where  I go
the cranes are reeling
blown by winds from the frozen depths.

I shall try to think of a Maltese sun
light up the sea, on a boat some boys.
Red, malachite, and gold the day.
Their heads are haloed. Golden hay
their wind swept locks, they go trippingly
where you go, and I sink deep
into the depths.



References:
1. https://www.famous-trials.com/wilde/323-letters
2. Dante Commedia Canto V 


E come li stornei ne portan l’ali40
nel freddo tempo, a schiera larga e piena,
così quel fiato li spiriti mali
di qua, di là, di giù, di sù li mena;
nulla speranza li conforta mai,
non che di posa, ma di minor pena.
E come i gru van cantando lor lai,
faccendo in aere di sé lunga riga,
così vid’ io venir, traendo guai,
ombre portate da la detta briga;

And as the wings of starlings bear them on 
In the cold season in large band and full,
So doth that blast the spirits maledict;

It hither, thither, downward, upward, drives them;
No hope doth comfort them forevermore,
Not of repose, but even of lesser pain. 

And as the cranes go chanting forth their lays,
Making in air a long line of themselves,
So saw I coming, uttering lamentations,
Shadows borne onward by the aforesaid stress.

3.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby,_Go..._Malachite

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#2
It was a difficult read for me. I read it five to ten times, but still groping for your meaning. I got the feeling of deep aloneness and inner imbalance. But admirable was the attempt to be strong even in the end he is defeated by depression.

The metaphor of Tuscan noon and Maltese sun strikes me, but not really too sure what they mean to you.

(07-12-2019, 06:43 AM)busker Wrote:  Darling boy, whose lips are like summer
Sangiovese, the Tuscan noon
in your wind swept hair, 
go trippingly. Where  I go
the cranes are reeling
blown by winds from the frozen depths.

I shall try to think of a Maltese sun
light up the sea, on a boat some boys.
Red, malachite, and gold the day.
Their heads are haloed. Golden hay
their wind swept locks, they go trippingly
where you go, and I sink deep
into the depths.
Reply
#3
Hi Gina - have put in some references under the spoiler 
There are allusions, not a lot of metaphor 
De profundis is a clue
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#4
(07-12-2019, 06:43 AM)busker Wrote:  Darling boy, whose lips are like summer  like the enjambent into L2 and descriptive shift. ‘Darling boy’ suggests something different the relationship of two young men. How about ‘darling companion’ - S2 will make the relationship clear, and permit an interesting discovery moment in the piece, rather than just hitting the reader over the head with it right away.
Sangiovese, the Tuscan noon
in your wind swept hair, 
go trippingly. Where  I go the construction of the sentence, with all the commas, obfuscated the meaning on the first read.  I had to go back and parse the sentence - imo something that should be mildly edited for clarity on the first read.
the cranes are reeling
blown by winds from the frozen depths. Original take was the cranes were birds, then after thinking about it I decided you meant construction cranes as a nice tie-in to his hard labor in a London prison.  A bit confused I am lol.

I shall try to think of a Maltese sun
light up the sea, on a boat some boys.
Red, malachite, and gold the day.
Their heads are haloed. Golden hay not keen on duplicated use of gold as an adjective
their wind swept locks, they go trippingly
where you go, and I sink deep
into the depths.

Overall I like it. Just picking nits....
There is no escape from metre; there is only mastery. TS Eliot
Reply
#5
Thanks, Seraph
Edit posted
The darling boy and crane ref should be clearer from the links

The links are in the spoiler
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#6
.
Hi Busker,
thanks for the spoilers, much needed Smile


Not keen on the title (which invites an unnecessary comparison) and confused by the painting (produced/exhibited in 1902).
When would N have seen it?

I don't think the revision has helped S1 (which works well), and I'm still not convinced with S2, mainly for temporal reasons.


Just a thought.


Darling boy,
whose lips are like summer
sweet Sangiovese, the Tuscan sun
tangled in your hair,
- 'wind swept hair' seems far too clichéd.
go trippingly. For Where I go
cranes are reeling
in an icy wind
blown from the depths.




Best, Knot


.
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#7
falls on your hair like on a field
of what’s flaxen in Tuscany
The syntax here is awkward, it's too condensed.

from the murk where where cranes are wailing,
The double 'where' seems to be a typo.

wheeling in the frozen depths.
This metaphor seems a bit weird, is this the reference to Dante?  Since 'cranes' is ambiguous it needs to work for both the bird and the machine.

light up the sea, on a boat some boys.
I would say 'lighting', it flows better and is more acceptable grammar.

the green ocean glints in their eyes....
They leap into a tidy sea,
Best lines for me.

I also agree the title needs to be changed. It's an interesting poem, the combination of dream and dreamy landscapes works for me. I don't think you need any references. The poem is not obscure.

hope this helps

Ross
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#8
Thanks, knot
Your comments prompted some thinking
Redone

Knot, didn’t realise the 1902.
I was thinking of Tuke’s other work from the 1890s
As a general theme of what was going around then, should still be ok
Reply
#9
.
Hi Busker.

The theme works, but wouldn't 'Red, malachite, and gold' need to change to 'August Blue'? Still no idea why Maltese though Smile

While I agree, the Dante may be unnecessary, I thought the cranes worked (though perhaps 'turned' for ''reeled' might help there?)

I don't think either revision offers much of an improvement, neither flows that smoothly. Would it make sense if, following Sangiovese, the next
sentence was a question? As in,

Darling boy,
whose lips are as summer
Sangiovese, does the dawn still
tangle in your hair, like sunlight
through a beach wood? In dreams,
I see a day in August, blue,

....
....
..…


Go trippingly, my sweet boy,
for where I go cranes are wheeling
in an icy wind


Best, Knot.

.
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#10
Give yourself time mate, you're revising too soon. Don't let perfect spoil good.
Reply
#11
(07-12-2019, 06:43 AM)busker Wrote:  Thanks The cranes reference doesn’t seem to be working
Also, the Dante allusion is overdone, making the narration unnatural. What’s the link anyway between the two?
Reworked.




Edit 2

Darling boy, whose lips are like summer
Sangiovese, the dawn light tangles
in your hair, like in a wood
intense, profound.

In dreams, I see a Maltese sun
light up the sea, on a boat some boys.
Red, malachite, and gold the day.
Their heads are haloed. Golden hay
their wind swept locks.

They leap into a tidy sea, 
and I sink deep into the depths.

Edit 1
Darling boy, whose lips are like summer
Sangiovese, the morning sun
falls on your hair, like on a field
of what’s flaxen in Tuscany
longed for in exile,
from the murk where where cranes are wailing,
wheeling in the frozen depths.

At night, I dream of a Maltese sun
light up the sea, on a boat some boys.
Red, malachite, and gold the day.
Their heads are haloed. Golden hay
their wind swept locks. Their limbs are lean,
the green ocean glints in their eyes.

They leap into a tidy sea, 
and I sink deep into the depths.

Original
Darling boy, whose lips are like summer
Sangiovese, the Tuscan noon
in your wind swept hair, 
go trippingly. Where  I go
the cranes are reeling
blown by winds from the frozen depths.

I shall try to think of a Maltese sun
light up the sea, on a boat some boys.
Red, malachite, and gold the day.
Their heads are haloed. Golden hay
their wind swept locks, they go trippingly
where you go, and I sink deep
into the depths.



References:
1. https://www.famous-trials.com/wilde/323-letters
2. Dante Commedia Canto V 


E come li stornei ne portan l’ali40
nel freddo tempo, a schiera larga e piena,
così quel fiato li spiriti mali
di qua, di là, di giù, di sù li mena;
nulla speranza li conforta mai,
non che di posa, ma di minor pena.
E come i gru van cantando lor lai,
faccendo in aere di sé lunga riga,
così vid’ io venir, traendo guai,
ombre portate da la detta briga;

And as the wings of starlings bear them on 
In the cold season in large band and full,
So doth that blast the spirits maledict;

It hither, thither, downward, upward, drives them;
No hope doth comfort them forevermore,
Not of repose, but even of lesser pain. 

And as the cranes go chanting forth their lays,
Making in air a long line of themselves,
So saw I coming, uttering lamentations,
Shadows borne onward by the aforesaid stress.

3.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby,_Go..._Malachite


The introduction gives a strong sense of romanticism and eroticism, as the reference to the taste of the lips and dawn light imply strong relations between the persona and subject. By expressing this through your chosen language you express the enthusiasm and emotionality of the persona, and although light tangling in a wood is a cliché image in film I’m not sure about poetry so it’s okay. The powerful image of a Maltese Sun sets the mood of the next stanza while resonating the image of the hair in the first line. The reference to the painting is pretty direct and doesn't fit well with the narrative. I suggest referencing it in the title in a more subtle way.
 Now you continue, to refer to their heads as haloed and then say golden hay which makes it unclear as to if it's the sun's light or natural blonde pigmentation. Wind-swept locks is kind of cliché and unnecessary since we know they have hair and are sailing in the ocean already. The ending of sinking into the ocean's depths seems to be referencing T.S Elliot's ending in TLSOAJPrufrock which is unfitting for your poem and by itself doesn't seem to tie your themes together.
 The image of a tidy sea is powerful and works well with the mood but them jumping into the sea seems to be a forced, unnecessary line. You could make a reference to the painting 'Hylas And The Nymphs' to imply they drag you in instead.

P.S You are not stupid so don't act like it.
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#12
(07-15-2019, 07:41 PM)Knot Wrote:  The theme works, but wouldn't 'Red, malachite, and gold' need to change to 'August Blue'?


Thanks for the comments, Knot
I think the allusion can be a loose one.
Tuke has loads of paintings featuring bathers on boats
To be clear, there’s no reason why OW would be talking about a Tuke painting in a poem to the darling boy. The allusion is for the reader, not the supposed receiver. At least, that’s how I see it

I think your also right in that the revision lacks something that the original has.
Oh well..::
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