Timothy Steele on Meter
#21
(07-11-2019, 01:57 PM)churinga Wrote:  
(07-11-2019, 09:53 AM)Seraphim Wrote:  
(07-11-2019, 02:46 AM)churinga Wrote:  One thing I learnt is that scanson requires one to read the whole poem each time you perfect the meter and everything else. Each line effects the next, so that the scanson can't be read in isolation. The first line effects the scanson of the last. It is all about the meaning of the language.  

Technical knowledge is not necessary.  Just as reading music is not necessary to play, sing or compose music.  Think of all the great blind musicians. It can all be done by ear. Technical knowledge helps to analize and explain art but it has nothing to do with creating it. It can be a straitjacket or a lifejacket.  Depends on the artist.

What does ones sight have to do with music? How many ‘greats composers don’t have a working knowledge of music theory?  But its digressing from the topic.  Choose whether or not you want to use the techniques. *shrug*. It’s entirely up to you.

Here are some composers who can't read music. 
Ry Cooder, Irving Berlin, Sir Paul McCartney, Jimi Hendrix, Erroll Garner, Chet Baker, John Lennon, Buddy Rich, Robert johnson, Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles, Bix Beidebecker. Elvis Preseley. Eric Clapton. 

I am not rubbishing your post, it is interesting but I wrote formal poetry long before I knew anything about it technically.

Not reading music and understanding music theory are two different. I don’t read music, for example, but I understand music theory. I have to have someone else do the musical notation though, and I have to hear a song rather than look at sheet music. But I think we’ll just have to disagree. No worries. Just didn’t want to continue back and forth like two kids on the playground lol.

(07-11-2019, 06:10 PM)billy Wrote:  i'm with you on this one rowens, i use or don't use a meter of choice and i want to i'll swap it around. for me it's how i hear it, not how i think someone else will hear it. if i'm writing to a form like a sonnet i'll usually follow the rules but if i'm free writing i'll usually do it in what sound right that said i do like meter in a poem.

(07-10-2019, 11:57 PM)rowens Wrote:  I operate on Abbott-Costello mathematics. It doesn't matter if it makes sense, as long as it works. Like I said before, everything for me is moving in and out of context. When I need specific types of knowledge and skill, I study. But after I use it, I forget it. The next time I have to learn it all over. With some poems, not knowing is more useful than knowing. It's good to learn and forget. I already forgot who Tim Steele is. Sounds like a wrestler I met on the independent circuit in the '90s.

One point I’m trying to make is this can be just a training device to help develop the ear, beyond simple metrics. Once a writer hears the subtleties, scanning isn’t needed. I think it was one of Churinga’s poems I mentioned it had a pronounced metrical beat because all the words were monosyllabic. Above helps explain how to alleviate that, if one wishes.

It also helps two writers on the net discuss rhythms, since we can’t hear each other. I spent ten years on a forum where notating the stress was a common method of communication between many. But - there seems to be a resistance to it here, so I won’t beat a dead horse.
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#22
The trouble for me is I still don't know what a trochee is or an iamb. I have read dozens of comments about them but it goes in one eye and comes out the other.
I did study music theory, the cycle of fifths, keys, scales and intervals. I worked with an opera singer once who said perfect pitch is, in opera, the ability to sing a song you have never heard simply by reading the notes. It is fascinating and amazing.
I did look at a poem of mine and realized it employed Hopkins' sprung rhythm so that's something I have learnt.

cheers

Ross
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#23
'One point I’m trying to make is'

Don't worry, in a workshopping forum all points will be polished smooth.  There will be no points left, don't worry
Peanut butter honey banana sandwiches
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#24
(07-12-2019, 03:26 AM)CRNDLSM Wrote:  'One point I’m trying to make is'

Don't worry, in a workshopping forum all points will be polished smooth.  There will be no points left, don't worry


Polished smooth or ground down? Lol
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#25
I hope you can view either as a positive 'experience'
Peanut butter honey banana sandwiches
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#26
(07-12-2019, 01:21 AM)churinga Wrote:  The trouble for me is I still don't know what a trochee is or an iamb.  I have read dozens of comments about them but it goes in one eye and comes out the other. 
I did study music theory, the cycle of fifths, keys, scales and intervals.  I worked with an opera singer once who said perfect pitch is, in opera, the ability to sing a song you have never heard simply by reading the notes.  It is fascinating and amazing.
I did look at a poem of mine and realized it employed Hopkins' sprung rhythm so that's something I have learnt.

cheers

Ross

Hi!   If you have problems remembering all this stuff, maybe my old thread from many years ago will help? There is one comment in particular which will ensure you never forget. 
http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/thread-14467.html

Pip-pip!
E
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