Triggered
#21
trigger warnings are not enough! if those pieces of "classic" literature are enough to cause psychological harm, then fuck it, they should be banned outright! do people ban bombings? rapes? yes, and they still happen -- but only because they're uncontrollable. books, however, can be burned!

(the above's not my actual opinion, but i do wonder if there'd be more reason milked when the lighter's swapped with a forest fire -- because yeah, ultimately i don't think trigger warnings will make a difference, only set up more "valid" annoyances for printers/teachers with lazy/stupid audiences.)
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#22
my poetry should have trigger warnings. shite poetry do not readSad
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#23
(03-28-2016, 12:12 PM)shemthepenman Wrote:  
(03-28-2016, 11:34 AM)billy Wrote:  the topic is about classics, i just presumed it still was Big Grin okay texas chainsaw massacre might be in the adult section of a library if they have one. the classics however should be open to people of all ages. when parenting fails. help services should kick in, sadly it's not a perfect world. that said, i'd like my kids to have the choice of reading or not reading. i can only speak for them. should they ever get molested or raped i will obviously tell them to read the blurb of all books on their inside covers less they have flashbacks. okay, my grandkids. [my kids are all grown up fed on horror films and wuthering heights; i know; i ruined the poor things. we took in more kids than doctor barnardoes over the years, i would never dream of telling them 'don't read that book' i may explain what it's about but i'd never say no to a book they chose. i cut my reading teeth on newspapers and porn mags kids get so much shite and filth piled on them that a book choice wouldn't make an iota of doing harm. do we stop molested kids from watching the news? why stop them reading books? and a heads up, a trigger warning will only inspire a kid to read the book more avidly, i say this because i was once a kid; i know about these things Hysterical

i agree with all that, and like i said before, 'don't read this' warnings are a shortcut to getting kids to read something; i say stick warnings on all the classics.
anyway, i didn't read the article entirely, just skimmed it. i was under the impression that the 'trigger warning' thing was more of a catchy slogan type deal; not an out and out 'you shouldn't/can't read this' mandate.
and in terms of a warning, the opposition to it is pretty weak, because the concept itself is pretty weak. it just seems like a new thing for grumpy people to be grumpy about. "mutter mutter. . . they're putting warnings on books now. . . huff and puff. . ." alternatively, warnings on books are just a way for the do-gooders to persist with their do-goodery; which is just as trivial. if i didn't suspect everyone being thick as shit, i could even imagine a secret government initiative that sets up these little schemes to keep the grumpy cunts happy, grumbling about some nothing, instead of strapping bombs to their chests, or going mental in a playground with an automatic weapon.
It's not warnings per se, it goes pretty far in college classes in some areas;  students avoid entire readings so as not to have flair ups. It's self censorship, not getting ready emotionally for something challenging, which is clearly the role of a good teacher as Leanne has noted.
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#24
This has some serious problems when it follows the books into the lower grades. We did Mark Twain's Puddinhead Wilson in fifth grade (along with the full collection of Robert Frost, Smile, well, we didn't study them all but I had them all in my hands.). Racism! Illegitimacy! I don't remember, probably rape and a host of other things.

You will have parents that never read the books and see only the list of warnings on the cover. I can hear the indignant complaints now, in fact, I can see books addressing anything serious being banned by school administrators because they don't want to be accused of approving something inappropriate.

IMO those issues are best kept within the pages of the book to be presented as the author intended.
billy wrote:welcome to the site. make it your own, wear it like a well loved slipper and wear it out. ella pleads:please click forum titles for posting guidelines, important threads. New poet? Try Poetic DevicesandWard's Tips

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#25
My first semester in college I was in a Contemporary World Lit course, featuring graphic descriptions of rape, racism, and religious discrimination. One student asked the teacher to cover over everything sexual in the final book with a black marker, and this wasn't even the most sexual of the books. Trigger warnings on 'disturbing' art, to me, is an excuse to pretend the world isn't a screwed up place. It's ignoring the issues at hand, which I cannot support.
If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room.

"Or, if a poet writes a poem, then immediately commits suicide (as any decent poet should)..." -- Erthona
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#26
(03-28-2016, 10:12 PM)UselessBlueprint Wrote:  My first semester in college I was in a Contemporary World Lit course, featuring graphic descriptions of rape, racism, and religious discrimination. One student asked the teacher to cover over everything sexual in the final book with a black marker, and this wasn't even the most sexual of the books. Trigger warnings on 'disturbing' art, to me, is an excuse to pretend the world isn't a screwed up place. It's ignoring the issues at hand, which I cannot support.

How did the teacher respond?
"We believe that we invent symbols. The truth is that they invent us; we are their creatures, shaped by their hard, defining edges." - Gene Wolfe
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#27
(03-29-2016, 12:33 AM)Heslopian Wrote:  
(03-28-2016, 10:12 PM)UselessBlueprint Wrote:  My first semester in college I was in a Contemporary World Lit course, featuring graphic descriptions of rape, racism, and religious discrimination. One student asked the teacher to cover over everything sexual in the final book with a black marker, and this wasn't even the most sexual of the books. Trigger warnings on 'disturbing' art, to me, is an excuse to pretend the world isn't a screwed up place. It's ignoring the issues at hand, which I cannot support.

How did the teacher respond?

snap, that was exactly what i was about to ask.
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#28
She blacked it out, as requested. That fact itself does not bother me, though. People can do as they wish. The universities I've attended have been rather accommodating (if that's the polite word to use), and prefer to avoid conflicts on any sensitive matters. If the teacher has to censor the sex out of a book because it makes a student uncomfortable, so be it.
Personally, though, I don't think all books are proper for people of all ages, or something along those lines. I believe there are fair limits for exposure to 'the real world', but the lines that govern this are evidently quite blurry. I hate blurry lines. I want black and white answers to everything. I think a trigger warning has it's place in areas such as social media, which is where I first noticed them. I don't think they should be applied to art.

(Opinions subject to change)
If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room.

"Or, if a poet writes a poem, then immediately commits suicide (as any decent poet should)..." -- Erthona
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#29
That a teacher censored a book for one student, rather than assigning that student another book entirely because reading a censored version was not reading it at all, is a disgrace. This is not accommodating the learning needs of the student, it is enabling lazy practices in education. Might as well just start assigning the Readers Digest condensed versions of everything, or letting people watch trailers instead of full movies.
It could be worse
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#30
if I were asked to spend an hour to mark up a book for a fool, I'd ask for something in return. Like a first born.
~ I think I just quoted myself - Achebe
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#31
Dangerous ground... after all, these are the kind of students who should be strongly encouraged to use contraception. Many, many layers of contraception.
It could be worse
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#32
"he said something very interesting, about 1968. . . he said something to me that i think is far more true today, which is, the surprising thing is not that young people will rebel—young people always rebel, it is something young people do—the surprising thing is, why do the adults give in?
the amazing question, that hovers over yale university, is 'why do the adults sit and take it, and the kids can run rampage?' because someone needs to say to the shrieking girl, who is f-ing and blinding at her university professor:
'you know what? you're not at a 'home'. this is not a home for you, it is a university. it's a very different thing; and, what's more, if you cannot cope with halloween costumes, then you've got no place at a university; because, you're going to have no chance of dealing with quantum physics or shakespeare or heidegger, if halloween spooks you out this much. you're a useless person and you're going to go into a useless career; because, if you're a lawyer and you've gone to yale and you're too sensitive to hear about rape cases, then you're not going to be able to represent anyone in a court of law. so, you're no use for the law. you're no use for literature, because you might read a novel that will trigger you. you're no use for the sciences. you're no use for anything!'
and that is what the adults should be saying. they should be telling the kids to grow up! but for some reason they have lost their confidence.
and while we are worrying about all this, this is the conversation we'll be having when the mullahs nuke us. everyone will be discussing whether someone is transgender despite the fact they haven't had any operation to remove their penis; whether someone who hasn't got a penis can be a man, and whether someone who has got a penis can be glamour woman of the year, when the islamists come in with Kalashnikovs. it's pathetic!"

—douglas murray
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#33
O
(03-27-2016, 10:52 PM)milo Wrote:  I think ideas like this are bound to be unpopular in a writer's group but if we are to be honest - who would they hurt? A better idea might be to make trigger warning editions available for those who want them for a slight upcharge.

Yeah, a bunch of writin' folk are not going to like this.  I am trying to calm myself.

Haven't heard of Douglas Murray before, not sure I agree with all his views, but his rant is fair.
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#34
Music 
(03-29-2016, 09:27 AM)aschueler Wrote:  O
(03-27-2016, 10:52 PM)milo Wrote:  I think ideas like this are bound to be unpopular in a writer's group but if we are to be honest - who would they hurt? A better idea might be to make trigger warning editions available for those who want them for a slight upcharge.

Yeah, a bunch of writin' folk are not going to like this.  I am trying to calm myself.

Haven't heard of Douglas Murray before, not sure I agree with all his views, but his rant is fair.

yeah, he isn't necessarily on my side of the political spectrum [not that i particularly have a side] , and i would probably disagree with him a good deal more than i would agree; but, this discussion made me remember hearing this rant a while back [he's talking to Sam Harris]; and i think, although far too black and white to be applied in all cases, there are bits of the rant that are definitely worth consideration.

anyway, maybe it's just because i like conflict, or appreciate its necessity for creativity, that i think this kind of tepid censorship, or social sensitivity, is good for the soul. and in a healthy society, there is always some pushing and pulling, rebellion and conformity. it used to be sticking two fingers up to the system; now, and inevitably, the system has changed and so too, necessarily, has the resistance.

eye fink soe aniwhey. dun wiv thiz subdyect nour. bord ov it.
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#35
(03-29-2016, 07:30 AM)Leanne Wrote:  That a teacher censored a book for one student, rather than assigning that student another book entirely because reading a censored version was not reading it at all, is a disgrace.  This is not accommodating the learning needs of the student, it is enabling lazy practices in education.  Might as well just start assigning the Readers Digest condensed versions of everything, or letting people watch trailers instead of full movies.

I don't necessarily agree with the teacher's decision, and I think that any student with the competence to pass the course would certainly be able to handle some very mild scenes. Universities have their rules, however, and I don't blame the teacher for valuing her own job more than the student's education. Of course, the syllabus did make a note of the sort of material involved, so I'm more willing to pin this on the student.

I find this example to be particularly grey for me, which I hate. I don't think trigger warnings are really justified, but I think it might be a better use of time to examine why these trigger warnings are even a thing, rather than trying to decide if they should stay or go. One opinion says people need to grow up, one opinion says all people have rights (and sensitivities) that must be catered to. And there are many opinions in between. Which one is right?
If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room.

"Or, if a poet writes a poem, then immediately commits suicide (as any decent poet should)..." -- Erthona
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#36
yes.

let's go ahead and put up warning labels about written gore for protection from higher thinking so we can get right back to posting nude selfies all over Facebook while bragging about smoking the raddist kush, finally topping it all off with a visit it Orgish.com with our hands on our cock.

.

fuck em.

I mean, seriously. How many of these fucktards are going to actually read the book anyway. Approximately zero. The cliff notes version already edits out the scenes. This is all about self important narcissism and zero about whatever is written on pages they'll never read.
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