[split] 3-14-15 'Ku or what's a ku?

[tectak]

Yup, it's a haiku. Well done.

This is a haiku?
Two four two is something else.
But what? Do you know?

Don't mean to hijack the thread but the comment would not work if applied only to the..er...poem.
I miss a lot by not understanding what the hell is going on in some of these postings...I think.
So leah, please tell me and tiger why it is a haiku.
Best to both,
tectak

[rayheinrich]

Yup, it's a haiku. Well done.

This is a haiku?
Two four two is something else.
But what? Do you know?

Don't mean to hijack the thread but the comment would not work if applied only to the..er...poem.
I miss a lot by not understanding what the hell is going on in some of these postings...I think.
So leah, please tell me and tiger why it is a haiku.
Best to both,
tectak

"please tell me and tiger why it is a haiku"


        haiku
        haiku -
        first thaw


        litter box
        cat shits -
        zen garden

[tectak]

Yup, it's a haiku. Well done.

This is a haiku?
Two four two is something else.
But what? Do you know?

Don't mean to hijack the thread but the comment would not work if applied only to the..er...poem.
I miss a lot by not understanding what the hell is going on in some of these postings...I think.
So leah, please tell me and tiger why it is a haiku.
Best to both,
tectak

"please tell me and tiger why it is a haiku"


        haiku
        haiku -
        first thaw


        litter box
        cat shits -
        zen garden

My grandpa and your
grandpa, sitting by the fire.
My grandpa told your

grandpa,"Gonna set your
flag on fire". Talk about...

HAIKU, HAIKU....HAIKU HAIKU ANEE!
Jackamo fino an-nan-nay
Jackamo finan-nay.

You started it. Fin.
Got I'll get bard for this.
Best,
tectak

[ellajam]

first thaw
cigarette butts
dog shit 

This is the OP from the thread these replies were split from, feel free to discuss here. ella

[tectak]

first thaw
cigarette butts
dog shit 

This is the OP from the thread these replies were split from, feel free to discuss here.   ella

Good call, ella.
goodnight,
tectak

[Tiger the Lion]

first thaw
cigarette butts
dog shit 

This is the OP from the thread these replies were split from, feel free to discuss here.   ella

Good call, ella.
goodnight,
tectak

I will attempt to explain my reasoning, though I may be wrong on one or more points, I'm quite happy to hear why.
Do I have a traditional Haiku here?
Certainly not. What do I have?
Do I have a seasonal word or concept? - I think so. "first thaw" I don't think this is an obscure kigo. 

Do I have a cutting word, an "aha" moment, a Kireji ? - This is where, in my edit, I may have broken from tradition. Perhaps I have been too subtle believing that the joyous "mood" of spring's arrival at first thaw is quickly shown to be premature and there is still litter or shall we say the "baggage" of winter left to be dealt with. So no, there is no cutting word, but I believe the "turn" is implied. As I said, I could be quite wrong.

As far as syllables go, I haven't written a 5-7-5 haiku for a long time. I feel it is incorrect and further to that I think
2-4-2 is much closer in spirit. If I were to adhere to the misconception that English haiku should be in 5-7-5 I may have written this something like...

it is spring's first thaw
beneath the blanket reveals
cigarettes, dog shit

ouch, that's terrible. How can I edit this?

it is spring's first thaw
beneath the blanket reveals
cigarette butts
dog shit

...back where we started

I think for me the most important aspect in haiku is have I painted a seasonal image that a reader can understand, and have I done it with the best word economy I can?

Anyway guys, that's my thought process with this one. Feel free to dismantle my arguments and educate me further. This is why I come to class. 

Paul

[rayheinrich]

                ask billy

[ellajam]

This is the OP from the thread these replies were split from, feel free to discuss here.   ella

Good call, ella.
goodnight,
tectak

I will attempt to explain my reasoning, though I may be wrong on one or more points, I'm quite happy to hear why.
Do I have a traditional Haiku here?
Certainly not. What do I have?
Do I have a seasonal word or concept? - I think so. "first thaw" I don't think this is an obscure kigo. 

Do I have a cutting word, an "aha" moment, a Kireji ? - This is where, in my edit, I may have broken from tradition. Perhaps I have been too subtle believing that the joyous "mood" of spring's arrival at first thaw is quickly shown to be premature and there is still litter or shall we say the "baggage" of winter left to be dealt with. So no, there is no cutting word, but I believe the "turn" is implied. As I said, I could be quite wrong.

As far as syllables go, I haven't written a 5-7-5 haiku for a long time. I feel it is incorrect and further to that I think
2-4-2 is much closer in spirit. If I were to adhere to the misconception that English haiku should be in 5-7-5 I may have written this something like...

it is spring's first thaw
beneath the blanket reveals
cigarettes, dog shit

ouch, that's terrible. How can I edit this?

it is spring's first thaw
beneath the blanket reveals
cigarette butts
dog shit

...back where we started

I think for me the most important aspect in haiku is have I painted a seasonal image that a reader can understand, and have I done it with the best word economy I can?

Anyway guys, that's my thought process with this one. Feel free to dismantle my arguments and educate me further. This is why I come to class. 

Paul

Your response is why I come to class.

[tectak]

Good call, ella.
goodnight,
tectak

I will attempt to explain my reasoning, though I may be wrong on one or more points, I'm quite happy to hear why.
Do I have a traditional Haiku here?
Certainly not. What do I have?
Do I have a seasonal word or concept? - I think so. "first thaw" I don't think this is an obscure kigo. 

Do I have a cutting word, an "aha" moment, a Kireji ? - This is where, in my edit, I may have broken from tradition. Perhaps I have been too subtle believing that the joyous "mood" of spring's arrival at first thaw is quickly shown to be premature and there is still litter or shall we say the "baggage" of winter left to be dealt with. So no, there is no cutting word, but I believe the "turn" is implied. As I said, I could be quite wrong.

As far as syllables go, I haven't written a 5-7-5 haiku for a long time. I feel it is incorrect and further to that I think
2-4-2 is much closer in spirit. If I were to adhere to the misconception that English haiku should be in 5-7-5 I may have written this something like...

it is spring's first thaw
beneath the blanket reveals
cigarettes, dog shit

ouch, that's terrible. How can I edit this?

it is spring's first thaw
beneath the blanket reveals
cigarette butts
dog shit

...back where we started

I think for me the most important aspect in haiku is have I painted a seasonal image that a reader can understand, and have I done it with the best word economy I can?

Anyway guys, that's my thought process with this one. Feel free to dismantle my arguments and educate me further. This is why I come to class. 

Paul

You response is why I come to class.

Thaw
butts
shit.

Getting better all the time
Best,
tectak

[Tiger the Lion]

I will attempt to explain my reasoning, though I may be wrong on one or more points, I'm quite happy to hear why.
Do I have a traditional Haiku here?
Certainly not. What do I have?
Do I have a seasonal word or concept? - I think so. "first thaw" I don't think this is an obscure kigo. 

Do I have a cutting word, an "aha" moment, a Kireji ? - This is where, in my edit, I may have broken from tradition. Perhaps I have been too subtle believing that the joyous "mood" of spring's arrival at first thaw is quickly shown to be premature and there is still litter or shall we say the "baggage" of winter left to be dealt with. So no, there is no cutting word, but I believe the "turn" is implied. As I said, I could be quite wrong.

As far as syllables go, I haven't written a 5-7-5 haiku for a long time. I feel it is incorrect and further to that I think
2-4-2 is much closer in spirit. If I were to adhere to the misconception that English haiku should be in 5-7-5 I may have written this something like...

it is spring's first thaw
beneath the blanket reveals
cigarettes, dog shit

ouch, that's terrible. How can I edit this?

it is spring's first thaw
beneath the blanket reveals
cigarette butts
dog shit

...back where we started

I think for me the most important aspect in haiku is have I painted a seasonal image that a reader can understand, and have I done it with the best word economy I can?

Anyway guys, that's my thought process with this one. Feel free to dismantle my arguments and educate me further. This is why I come to class. 

Paul

You response is why I come to class.

Thaw
butts
shit.

Getting better all the time
Best,
tectak

Disagree, You've removed the adjective from each line.   The nouns now have no context. (in fact all 3 of them could be verbs now) You're left with 3 unrelated words. Less is not always more.
Best,
Paul

[tectak]

You response is why I come to class.

Thaw
butts
shit.

Getting better all the time
Best,
tectak

Disagree, You've removed the adjective from each line.   The nouns now have no context. (in fact all 3 of them could be verbs now) You're left with 3 unrelated words. Less is not always more.
Best,
Paul

Shit butted by thaw?

[Weeded]

[RiverNotch]

This is the OP from the thread these replies were split from, feel free to discuss here.   ella

Good call, ella.
goodnight,
tectak

I will attempt to explain my reasoning, though I may be wrong on one or more points, I'm quite happy to hear why.
Do I have a traditional Haiku here?
Certainly not. What do I have?
Do I have a seasonal word or concept? - I think so. "first thaw" I don't think this is an obscure kigo. 

Do I have a cutting word, an "aha" moment, a Kireji ? - This is where, in my edit, I may have broken from tradition. Perhaps I have been too subtle believing that the joyous "mood" of spring's arrival at first thaw is quickly shown to be premature and there is still litter or shall we say the "baggage" of winter left to be dealt with. So no, there is no cutting word, but I believe the "turn" is implied. As I said, I could be quite wrong.

As far as syllables go, I haven't written a 5-7-5 haiku for a long time. I feel it is incorrect and further to that I think
2-4-2 is much closer in spirit. If I were to adhere to the misconception that English haiku should be in 5-7-5 I may have written this something like...

it is spring's first thaw
beneath the blanket reveals
cigarettes, dog shit

ouch, that's terrible. How can I edit this?

it is spring's first thaw
beneath the blanket reveals
cigarette butts
dog shit

...back where we started

I think for me the most important aspect in haiku is have I painted a seasonal image that a reader can understand, and have I done it with the best word economy I can?

Anyway guys, that's my thought process with this one. Feel free to dismantle my arguments and educate me further. This is why I come to class. 

Paul

My whole bit got moved. Here's the actual response part of the bit:

So haiku equals 
plain things, seasonal word,
and a big turn, right?

Your 'haiku' was plain, that much is sure.

The seasonal word was also plain, as you only get first thaw in spring (I think).

The big turn, however, is where things got itchy. I think you got a bit too economical, so now your poem looks--well, shit, I've not my wit tonight. Anyway, the turn might not have been clear enough for most of your readers (it sure wasn't clear to me, as my moved critique should show), and that's where you may have failed. That is, it's not obvious enough that the first thaw is what clears out to reveals the butts and shit, so it just feels like a mess of a parataxis. I guess the question now is how obvious the turn should be for a haiku to be, well, a haiku, and not, again, a mess of a parataxis, maybe.

[rayheinrich]

Good call, ella.
goodnight,
tectak

I will attempt to explain my reasoning, though I may be wrong on one or more points, I'm quite happy to hear why.
Do I have a traditional Haiku here?
Certainly not. What do I have?
Do I have a seasonal word or concept? - I think so. "first thaw" I don't think this is an obscure kigo. 

Do I have a cutting word, an "aha" moment, a Kireji ? - This is where, in my edit, I may have broken from tradition. Perhaps I have been too subtle believing that the joyous "mood" of spring's arrival at first thaw is quickly shown to be premature and there is still litter or shall we say the "baggage" of winter left to be dealt with. So no, there is no cutting word, but I believe the "turn" is implied. As I said, I could be quite wrong.

As far as syllables go, I haven't written a 5-7-5 haiku for a long time. I feel it is incorrect and further to that I think
2-4-2 is much closer in spirit. If I were to adhere to the misconception that English haiku should be in 5-7-5 I may have written this something like...

it is spring's first thaw
beneath the blanket reveals
cigarettes, dog shit

ouch, that's terrible. How can I edit this?

it is spring's first thaw
beneath the blanket reveals
cigarette butts
dog shit

...back where we started

I think for me the most important aspect in haiku is have I painted a seasonal image that a reader can understand, and have I done it with the best word economy I can?

Anyway guys, that's my thought process with this one. Feel free to dismantle my arguments and educate me further. This is why I come to class. 

Paul

My whole bit got moved. Here's the actual response part of the bit:

So haiku equals 
plain things, seasonal word,
and a big turn, right?

Your 'haiku' was plain, that much is sure.

The seasonal word was also plain, as you only get first thaw in spring (I think).

The big turn, however, is where things got itchy. I think you got a bit too economical, so now your poem looks--well, shit, I've not my wit tonight. Anyway, the turn might not have been clear enough for most of your readers (it sure wasn't clear to me, as my moved critique should show), and that's where you may have failed. That is, it's not obvious enough that the first thaw is what clears out to reveals the butts and shit, so it just feels like a mess of a parataxis. I guess the question now is how obvious the turn should be for a haiku to be, well, a haiku, and not, again, a mess of a parataxis, maybe.

        no kigo
        no turn -
        frozen haiku